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Fatboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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Fatboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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| David wrote: | | Fatboy wrote: | David, don't try to solve the worlds problems, you cant!
Ive been where you are now, at the end it gets exhausting, the Human Race is destined for extinction, we will do it to our selves, we just dont learn, why?
Because i believe we dont live long enough, all people, even tyrants, humble with time. |
I'm sorry you got so jaded. The fact is, though, that there are people fighting to change it. The gay rights movement; Wikileaks; Arab uprising; women's suffrage; civil rights; those who fought for democracy and freedom of the press centuries ago. Whether you support those movements or not, people's lives have changed because of it. There's a reason why we live in a country where we can express ourselves freely on a board like this, not be tortured in a religious inquisition, not be executed for being gay, not be spat upon for being of a different ethnic heritage. All these things happened because people fought for it. You may have given up, but a lot of people haven't. |
David , the world (man)is evil and history keeps on repeating, why do we still have genocidal wars, havent we learnt after 2000 years?
Unfortunately Man is a lost cause , as long as Psychopath's keep fooling the people into electing them into power, surley one day a Leader will come along and use the Nuclear weapons, its inevitable. |
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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You mean your cloak of neo-conservative tea-party clap trap won't protect from the fallout? There is a God after all....
_________________
"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad". |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| rocketronnie wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Because we are sick of bullshit excuses getting people off lightly when they have done evil deeds. |
Just love this simplistic lynch mob mentality. Straight out of the Herald-Sun and the shock-jock airwaves. No reflection necessary. Independent thought is such a scary thing isn't it? |
Trolling again hey?
Just pick out 1 line and have a dig
Did you read the earlier post where I had already explained my view?
Of course not, your just looking for a shot to take.
That is my independent thought, BTW, anyone who's read my posts on any similar subject know it.
I believe in victims rights before criminals rights.
I believe in taking responsibility for your own actions.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Fatboy wrote: | | David wrote: | | Fatboy wrote: | David, don't try to solve the worlds problems, you cant!
Ive been where you are now, at the end it gets exhausting, the Human Race is destined for extinction, we will do it to our selves, we just dont learn, why?
Because i believe we dont live long enough, all people, even tyrants, humble with time. |
I'm sorry you got so jaded. The fact is, though, that there are people fighting to change it. The gay rights movement; Wikileaks; Arab uprising; women's suffrage; civil rights; those who fought for democracy and freedom of the press centuries ago. Whether you support those movements or not, people's lives have changed because of it. There's a reason why we live in a country where we can express ourselves freely on a board like this, not be tortured in a religious inquisition, not be executed for being gay, not be spat upon for being of a different ethnic heritage. All these things happened because people fought for it. You may have given up, but a lot of people haven't. |
David , the world (man)is evil and history keeps on repeating, why do we still have genocidal wars, havent we learnt after 2000 years?
Unfortunately Man is a lost cause , as long as Psychopath's keep fooling the people into electing them into power, surley one day a Leader will come along and use the Nuclear weapons, its inevitable. |
Perhaps. I don't agree that humankind is evil, but I acknowledge that we're certainly fragile and, as a species, remarkably self-destructive. No issues there.
What then should our response be? To abandon civilisation and law, buy a gun and hide up in the caves? No, and I don't think you believe that either. In fact, you've spent the majority of another thread arguing that we need to replace the government and democratically elect another leader. Clearly, the threat of nuclear armageddon is not enough to stop you from participating in society and arguing for change on forums such as these (even if 'change' for you constitutes replacing a centre-right-wing government with a slightly more right-wing one). The potential for imminent destruction ought not deter us from doing the best we can to make our society a better place to live in while we're still here. I don't think your youthful zeal has been lost; I think it's just been channeled into something far more negative.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: |
Perhaps. I don't agree that humankind is evil, but I acknowledge that we're certainly fragile and, as a species, remarkably self-destructive. No issues there.
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interesting point. i have noticed in other posts. That you dont think there is such thing as Evil.
Do you consider Martin Bryant evil?
John Wayne Gacy? (very good day time movie with Brian Dennehy)
okay Bryant isnt bright, aparently had a bad child hood, Gacy got smacked in the head with a swing,
Ted Bundy?
Donald Harvey?
nothing in their backgrounds, they just killed because they wanted to
Psychotic depression?
yet they were cunning enough to live otherwise normal lives.
is it possible some poeple are just born bad?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Fatboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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"I don't agree that humankind is evil, but I acknowledge that we're certainly fragile and, as a species, remarkably self-destructive."
Self Destructive is Evil!
Dave Look at History, it is full of Genocides, millions and Millions have been slaughtered, and you say humankind aint evil
One man didnt kill all those millions (Perhaps Billions throughout history), many men made this happen.
What about the blatant abuse of the Earth and its Animals, Not Evil!
Come on David, have a bit more of a think about things.
Man is Inherently Evil. Even in our Historical Religious texts there is nothing but evil. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: |
Perhaps. I don't agree that humankind is evil, but I acknowledge that we're certainly fragile and, as a species, remarkably self-destructive. No issues there.
|
interesting point. i have noticed in other posts. That you dont think there is such thing as Evil.
Do you consider Martin Bryant evil?
John Wayne Gacy? (very good day time movie with Brian Dennehy)
okay Bryant isnt bright, aparently had a bad child hood, Gacy got smacked in the head with a swing,
Ted Bundy?
Donald Harvey?
nothing in their backgrounds, they just killed because they wanted to
Psychotic depression?
yet they were cunning enough to live otherwise normal lives.
is it possible some poeple are just born bad? |
I was talking more about the human race in general, but no, I don't believe people are evil.
Of course, it all depends how you define it. We know that psychopaths and sociopaths—people lacking any concept of compassion or empathy—exist, and the people you mention probably belong to those categories. Nobody, of course, chooses to be a psychopath; that is either a genetic deficiency or some kind of developmental issue (I haven't studied it in depth). In any case, it's obviously not a disorder people choose for themselves.
Sure, you can call such people 'evil' if you like; personally, I find the term kind of misleading and unhelpful. For one, it suggests a universal moral duality, whereby everything can be classed as 'good' or 'evil'. It's no surprise then that it has so many religious connotations. Outside the bounds of monotheistic religion (which tends to intrinsically depend on this duality), such rhetoric tells us nothing about human behaviour that isn't drastically simplified.
When you consider moral relativism (the view that morality is created within human societies and accordingly varies widely), the very concept of 'evil' itself becomes irrelevant. If 'right' and 'wrong' are simply products of individual societies and are nothing more than a reflection of that culture's needs and expectations, then they are themselves completely fluid. Thus, one society will consider human sacrifice righteous; another will think genocide acceptable; another will give medals to soldiers who kill other soldiers. Likewise, one society will consider eating pig meat immoral but circumcising females moral. Our own views of right and wrong are invariably products of our own upbringing.
Anyway, that's a bit of a diversion from the point you were trying to make, but I hope it explains why I reject 'evil' as a concept.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Fatboy wrote: | "I don't agree that humankind is evil, but I acknowledge that we're certainly fragile and, as a species, remarkably self-destructive."
Self Destructive is Evil!
Dave Look at History, it is full of Genocides, millions and Millions have been slaughtered, and you say humankind aint evil
One man didnt kill all those millions (Perhaps Billions throughout history), many men made this happen.
What about the blatant abuse of the Earth and its Animals, Not Evil!
Come on David, have a bit more of a think about things.
Man is Inherently Evil. Even in our Historical Religious texts there is nothing but evil. |
We're just animals at the end of the day. Animals fight, kill, hunt and, sometimes, toy with their prey. Why would you expect anything different from humans?
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Fatboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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| David wrote: | | Fatboy wrote: | "I don't agree that humankind is evil, but I acknowledge that we're certainly fragile and, as a species, remarkably self-destructive."
Self Destructive is Evil!
Dave Look at History, it is full of Genocides, millions and Millions have been slaughtered, and you say humankind aint evil
One man didnt kill all those millions (Perhaps Billions throughout history), many men made this happen.
What about the blatant abuse of the Earth and its Animals, Not Evil!
Come on David, have a bit more of a think about things.
Man is Inherently Evil. Even in our Historical Religious texts there is nothing but evil. |
We're just animals at the end of the day. Animals fight, kill, hunt and, sometimes, toy with their prey. Why would you expect anything different from humans? |
So we are Evil?
David, i can see you are no idiot, but unfortunately you are the product of the Leftist eduction system.
Time will change this, you have a brain (unlike some others).
Educate yourself! Seek the Real truth. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Fatboy, I'm the product of ten years of far-right Christian fundamentalist home-schooling. 
But thanks, I guess.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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jack_spain 
Joined: 03 May 2008
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| David wrote: |
We're just animals at the end of the day. Animals fight, kill, hunt and, sometimes, toy with their prey. Why would you expect anything different from humans? |
Ah David, David, David. That's the rub. If people are taught they are mere animals ruled by their selfish genes, and there are no objective moral standards to live by (whether you call them God's or the laws of the universe, etc), then is it any wonder civilisation is destroyed.
Atheist ideologists like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (who in death now knows better) have never been able to explain away the fact that the emergence of religious values was the causal factor in the emergence of what we call civilisation. Not only did we evolve a human society, but our consciousness evolved to discover transcendent values. Rather than mimicking the stupid and simplistic positivists like Feuerbach, or even Freud, by saying that God is a projection of ourselves, perhaps our consciousness evolved to discover something real about the cosmos: That there really are transcendent values to which we can aspire.
But the moment you deny these our civilisation is on the sure path to utter destruction. Killing off the religious instinct will destroy what makes us humans unique in the animal world.
Two books that you MUST read as soon as possible:
1. Robert Bellah's Religion in Human Evolution (Harvard University Press, 2011) - Bellah is the world's pre-eminent sociologist of religion.
2. Rupert Sheldrake, The Science Delusion - Freeing the Spirit of Enquiry (Coronet, 2012) - Sheldrake is a Cambridge University research scientist and leading thinker in the Noetic Sciences. He is diametrically opposed to the simplistic mechanistic view of universe that should have gone out with the 18th century rationalists.
No, believe me, we get the world we make, and teaching kids they are the result of a cosmic accident (really a ridiculous proposition when you think of it) will inevitably lead to them acting like random selfish adults.
If you want an older philosophical approach to this metaphysic read A.N. Whitehead's ideas about Process Philosophy. |
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Fatboy
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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| David wrote: | Fatboy, I'm the product of ten years of far-right Christian fundamentalist home-schooling.
But thanks, I guess. |
Extremism either way is no good. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Who is good? |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Fatboy wrote: | | David wrote: | Fatboy, I'm the product of ten years of far-right Christian fundamentalist home-schooling.
But thanks, I guess. |
Extremism either way is no good. |
I most certainly concur!
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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