Richard Dawkins & Geert Wilders

[Bruno]

Again, it seems it's not what's said but who says it...

One is a hero of the Left, the other is derided by the Left....

Richard Dawkins talking in Scotland, 2012:

RENOWNED atheist Professor Richard Dawkins received a surprise standing ovation in the traditionally Christian community of Stornoway last night� RENOWNED atheist Professor Richard Dawkins described Islam as �one of the great evils of the world� in his lecture� Members of the audience cheered loudly as Prof Dawkins used the appearance to attack Islam, while stressing that the �vast majority of Muslims� were not evil, only their religion was... �It is a disgrace a religion prescribes death for leaving it.�

Geert Wilders talking on Australian television, 2013:

Islam is not a religion of peace. Islam is a totalitarian ideology. The best example is that if any person, any Muslim wants to leave Islam, then the penalty is death� However, there are moderate and non-moderate Muslims, I acknowledge that. As a matter of fact the majority of the Muslims living in our society are moderate people. But don�t make the mistake that even though there are moderate and radical Muslims that there is a moderate or a radical Islam. There is only one Islam, and that is a totalitarian ideology that has no room for anything but Islam.

[David]

I wouldn't exactly call Dawkins a hero of the left. Left-wingers tend to have an uneasy relationship with new atheism at best. There's no better example of that than the late Christopher Hitchens, who was cautiously admired by many soft-progressives but loathed by the radical left. Although Dawkins is less of an overt warmonger, you won't hear many nice things about him at a Socialist Alternative meeting.

Still, I'm not ashamed to call myself a big fan of his. Wilders, on the other hand, is just an extremist preaching intolerance. He and Cory Bernardi would get on well. It's not hard to see that there's a big difference between someone who opposes religion in principle and therefore opposes Islam and someone who devotes their life to attacking Islam and Muslims specifically.

Which of these positions do you think Richard Dawkins supports?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

[Nick - Pie Man]

Dawkins is no hero, he's a rabid fundamentalist. Just as bad as the people he claims to oppose.

[Tannin]

The quoted passages from both people are perfectly sensible and reasonable, with the possible exception of Wilders' last sentence, which I lack the knowledge to comment on the veracity of. The difference lies in the other things that these two people have to say.

Dawkins has a long, well-established history as a serious, high-quality scientist, and a shorter but still weighty history as a brave and insightful analyst of some of the more egregious stupidities humanity has produced. Anything Dawkins writes has to be taken seriously and certainly cannot be dismissed out of hand. Anyone so ignorant as to think that Dawkins is "a hero of the left", however, has gone beyond clueless into a whole new world of fantasy.

Wilders is regarded as a loopy right-wing nutcase politician right out in the racist territory beyond One Nation. Wilders is regarded as unquestionably right-wing. Possibly these established common views are wrong, but not so far as know. I am not familiar with Wilders' work, so I can't speak from knowledge as I can in the case of Dawkins.

[David]

[Nick - Pie Man]

True, but a jackass is a jackass, no matter how smart he appears to be.

To be fair though his worshippers be far more unpleasant than the man himself.

[David]

Yeah, I confess I have little affection for self-described atheists. I mean, it's ok to say that you're an atheist if someone asks you (and I guess I am one), but making it your defining quality is a bit off. I'd rather be defined by what I am than what I'm not.

[watt price tully]

Corey Bernardi said what? (again)

[David]

^ I mentioned him because he's probably the closest figure we have to Geert Wilders (beyond the obvious ones like Pauline Hanson, et al). He also considers it his divinely appointed quest to teach the world about the evils of Islam.

[watt price tully]