Form ladder 2013

[Captain_MyCaptain]

No questions about Port hey.. lol.

[HAL]

Oops. Too much data.

[Captain_MyCaptain]

[HAL]

Enough about me, let's talk about the Pies.

[Jezza]

I'm interested to see the 'form ladder' this week. There will be some interesting changes I believe. I think we're above Richmond now, and I wonder whether Geelong goes on top of Hawthorn on the basis that they've beaten them twice or is Geelong's two losses against Collingwood and Brisbane enough to keep Hawthorn to the top according to David.

[Captain_MyCaptain]

Form Ladder round 15:

1. Hawthorn
2. Geelong
3. Sydney
4. Essendon
5. Freo
6. Collingwood
7. Richmond
8. Port

9. West Coast
10. North Melbourne
11. Adelaide
12. Carlton
13. Brisbane
14. Gold Coast
15. Western Bulldogs
16. St. Kilda
17. Melbourne
18. GWS

[David]

Thanks Jezza and CMC. Here's my effort:

Form Ladder round 15:

1. Hawthorn
2. Geelong
3. Sydney
4. Fremantle
5. Essendon
6. Collingwood
7. Richmond
8. Carlton

9. North Melbourne
10. Port Adelaide
11. West Coast
12. Adelaide
13. Brisbane
14. Gold Coast
15. St. Kilda
16. Western Bulldogs
17. Melbourne
18. GWS

Despite losing twice to Geelong, I'm still of the opinion that Hawthorn have been the better side of the two this year, though the gap is obviously closing. Some might argue that Carlton should drop out of the top 8, but I'm not convinced that any of the teams beneath them have made a stronger case. North are up and down as usual; Port are in decent form; West Coast look like they might be making a not-entirely-convincing run for the top 8; and Adelaide need to beat us this weekend if they're to be taken seriously as a finals contender. I had to drop the Bulldogs below St. Kilda — coming within a goal of losing to GWS (and losing to Melbourne the week before) necessitates that.[/quote]

[Pies4shaw]

Essendon are probably 13 places too high.

[Albert Parker]

[Jezza]

I find that looking at David's form ladder, positions 8-12 are the hardest to distinguish. The rest is correct in my opinion.

I think Port and North should be above Carlton. I guess David could argue that Carlton is above Port because Carlton did actually beat them, but at the same time it was during Port's bad period of 5 losses in a row and since then they've beaten two quality teams in Collingwood and Sydney, whereas Carlton failed to do so.

From positions 8-12 this is what I think the form ladder should be:
8. Port Adelaide
9. West Coast
10. North Melbourne
11. Carlton
12. Adelaide

[Albert Parker]

[David]

You could make a case for putting Port higher, but it's arguable. West Coast really haven't beaten anyone of merit, and Carlton were very competitive against Hawthorn and Essendon despite losing. Port lost to the Bulldogs, North and Carlton.

[Albert Parker]

[David]

I'm really only judging on results as a whole, although margins play a big role — I'm much more impressed by, say, a 6-point loss against Hawthorn than a 90-point win against Melbourne.

Perhaps it would be good to account for youth or injuries or other handicaps (if only to work out 'potential'), but that would be too much conjecture even for me! I think I'd prefer to keep it as simple as possible, but I'm happy if others want to experiment with different kinds of ladders here.

[Pies4shaw]

I suppose that serves to explain why a team which is highly likely to finish the season with no points at all is rated so highly.