Pill-testing
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Post subject: Pill-testing |  |
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Split from ASADA / Sam Murray thread in General Discussion
| inxs88 wrote: | | Reckon you're most likely a Greens voter, would petition for pill testing, save the lyre bird protestor and would give Ivan Milat a good behaviour bond. |
You don't need to be a Greens voter to agree with pill testing.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| A brain dysfunction is all that's required. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | A brain dysfunction is all that's required. |
I just read your comment so you prevented me from saying something similar. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Not a topic for this part of the board, but I support pill testing at music venues and festivals.
I also support decriminalisation (not legalisation of the drugs) of users and increased penalties for dealers.
Fear of dying isn't a strong motivator in young people, they're going to take drugs if that's how they're inclined, I'd rather they had the chance to get the shit tested without fear of consequences rather than dying.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Larry
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
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I don’t understand why pill testing is such a bad idea.
I have teenage boys and god I hope they don’t take drugs. But reality is they may well try. They are reasonably smart and I think would take advantage of pill testing if available and then can make a more informed decision.
I know just tell you not to and the fear of getting caught didn’t stop my group friends at that age one bit. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| stui magpie wrote: | Not a topic for this part of the board, but I support pill testing at music venues and festivals.
I also support decriminalisation (not legalisation of the drugs) of users and increased penalties for dealers.
Fear of dying isn't a strong motivator in young people, they're going to take drugs if that's how they're inclined, I'd rather they had the chance to get the shit tested without fear of consequences rather than dying. |
You are right in that this isn't a topic for here, but I will comment once more and then that will be it for me.
I am generally not too serious about anything that I post here, but not in this case. I have 17 and 15 year old sons so this is an issue that is potentially relevant to me, although I take some consolation when they tell me that they have no sympathy for anyone using pills as they describe them as losers.
If I thought that pill testing would lead to lives being saved then I would support it. That's an easy choice to make but if any thought is given to the concept and how it may play out in practice, supporting pill testing is supporting more deaths than are currently occurring without pill testing. My view is that pill testing will lead to more lives being lost.
For a start, in the minds of potential pill users, pill testing would give tacit support or legitimise the use of the pills. That will lead to more people using them. More demand leads to more dealers and more supply. A simple economic concept.
Assume we have pill testing. How will pill testing work?
What sized government department is going to be set up to establish the rules and regulations to administer the scheme? Will the government licence the pill manufacturers? Will the pills be required to go through TGA testing procedures before being released to the public? What sort of bottles will the pills come in? What warnings will be included on the pills?
Or are you suggesting a scheme where we have illegal backyard manufacturers of pills, who illegally sell to dealers who then illegally sell to end users at for example, a festival or nightclub? If so, will the festival or nightclub employ a chemist who sits behind a table with his beakers and test tubes testing to say yeah right mate no worries? No, the festival or nightclub will not employ such a person as they do not want to be liable for anything that goes wrong.
Either way there are massive problems as:-
* Without a medical examination taking place there is no way for the pill tester to know how each person will respond to each particular pill;
*Despite the inaccurate media reports in relation to pill related deaths, I am not aware of any deaths where a person has simply taken one pill and died without a complicating factor being present, such as a pre existing condition or mixing that pill with other pills, drugs or alcohol. Pill testing will not prevent that from occurring but will make it more likely to occur as there will be more users;
* We all know the way governments work. For pill testing to take place the complicated government bureaucracy that I referred to above would need to be established but on top of that, a certificate would need to be granted by the pill tester with respect to each pill, setting out the identity of the recipient, any medical limitations, and the result of the pill test, an acknowledgement by the user of the limitations of the test and the way that the pill is to be used, together with an acknowledged limitation of liability clause, which is underpinned by the new statutory scheme and legislation relating to pill testing;
* Without such a scheme no chemist would put their career and assets at risk by being involved in something so foolish. No insurer would provide a professional indemnity policy to a pill tester. We have had one parent recently blaming festival organisers for the pill related death of their child. As the saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. That may leave us with unqualified, undischarged bankrupts as the only likely candidates to conduct the testing;
* In my view these are the reasons why I believe pill testing is an ill considered concept and will never be implemented. It is too difficult and not practical or legally sound. Who would want to be the politician that established a pill testing regime and is then blamed when people continue use pills (tested) and then die in even greater numbers? As much as opposition politicians support the idea, if they enter government and are then briefed on the topic and are actually required to make a decision, they will not support it.
Of course there are counter arguments to what I have said, but after having read many articles in support of pill testing, I am yet to see anyone say anything more than "we have to have pill testing to save lives". I am yet to see a practical proposal that will actually achieve this. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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I can't see anyone suddenly deciding to take drugs just because they can get the pills tested. They're either going to take them because they want to, or they aren't. Getting them tested is likely however, to prevent some people from taking them if they are tested as being bad.
From what my 23 yr old son tells me, virtually everyone at some of these festivals are "on something". There's no point pretending otherwise. |
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Woods 
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | You are right in that this isn't a topic for here, but I will comment once more and then that will be it for me.
I am generally not too serious about anything that I post here, but not in this case. I have 17 and 15 year old sons so this is an issue that is potentially relevant to me, although I take some consolation when they tell me that they have no sympathy for anyone using pills as they describe them as losers.
If I thought that pill testing would lead to lives being saved then I would support it. That's an easy choice to make but if any thought is given to the concept and how it may play out in practice, supporting pill testing is supporting more deaths than are currently occurring without pill testing. My view is that pill testing will lead to more lives being lost.
For a start, in the minds of potential pill users, pill testing would give tacit support or legitimise the use of the pills. That will lead to more people using them. More demand leads to more dealers and more supply. A simple economic concept.
Assume we have pill testing. How will pill testing work?
What sized government department is going to be set up to establish the rules and regulations to administer the scheme? Will the government licence the pill manufacturers? Will the pills be required to go through TGA testing procedures before being released to the public? What sort of bottles will the pills come in? What warnings will be included on the pills?
Or are you suggesting a scheme where we have illegal backyard manufacturers of pills, who illegally sell to dealers who then illegally sell to end users at for example, a festival or nightclub? If so, will the festival or nightclub employ a chemist who sits behind a table with his beakers and test tubes testing to say yeah right mate no worries? No, the festival or nightclub will not employ such a person as they do not want to be liable for anything that goes wrong.
Either way there are massive problems as:-
* Without a medical examination taking place there is no way for the pill tester to know how each person will respond to each particular pill;
*Despite the inaccurate media reports in relation to pill related deaths, I am not aware of any deaths where a person has simply taken one pill and died without a complicating factor being present, such as a pre existing condition or mixing that pill with other pills, drugs or alcohol. Pill testing will not prevent that from occurring but will make it more likely to occur as there will be more users;
* We all know the way governments work. For pill testing to take place the complicated government bureaucracy that I referred to above would need to be established but on top of that, a certificate would need to be granted by the pill tester with respect to each pill, setting out the identity of the recipient, any medical limitations, and the result of the pill test, an acknowledgement by the user of the limitations of the test and the way that the pill is to be used, together with an acknowledged limitation of liability clause, which is underpinned by the new statutory scheme and legislation relating to pill testing;
* Without such a scheme no chemist would put their career and assets at risk by being involved in something so foolish. No insurer would provide a professional indemnity policy to a pill tester. We have had one parent recently blaming festival organisers for the pill related death of their child. As the saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. That may leave us with unqualified, undischarged bankrupts as the only likely candidates to conduct the testing;
* In my view these are the reasons why I believe pill testing is an ill considered concept and will never be implemented. It is too difficult and not practical or legally sound. Who would want to be the politician that established a pill testing regime and is then blamed when people continue use pills (tested) and then die in even greater numbers? As much as opposition politicians support the idea, if they enter government and are then briefed on the topic and are actually required to make a decision, they will not support it.
Of course there are counter arguments to what I have said, but after having read many articles in support of pill testing, I am yet to see anyone say anything more than "we have to have pill testing to save lives". I am yet to see a practical proposal that will actually achieve this. |
A well put and balanced viewpoint, 5FTWOD.
My 2c: if money is to be spent it would be better to spend it on nailing the bastards that import, make and peddle this lethal muck than running a taxpayer-funded testing regime that will increase their market and boost their profits. |
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88MPH
Joined: 14 Oct 2010
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Ah yes, the old "people are sheep" and "boys will be boys" argument.
God forbid that we should think independently or be responsible for our own actions...
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3KZ is football |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Some interesting and thought out arguments and some not.
5 from the wing, I take what you wrote on face value, and agree with a lot of it but not all.
We can't stop the manufacture and distribution of illicit drugs, we've been trying for decades. Demand is there, hence supply.
One worthwhile exercise could be to look at 2 different festivals that happened recently and the difference between them.
Rainbow Serpent has been written about extensively, with a number dead and other post festival consequences.
In contrast, just outside of Tocumwal late last year was the Strawberry fields festival that, as far as I'm aware had no such problems.
I don't know what the deal was with the Rainbow Serpent one, but I did some research on the Strawberry fields one because I was in town at the time and was curious.
A few things about Strawberry fields:
1. It was a good 5-6km out of town
2. There was a booze bus set up 500m from the entrance to the festival for the whole duration that tested every driver for booze and drugs
3. The festival organisers said clearly on their website, no drugs.
4. Booze was BYO as long as it wasn't in glass. No selling of booze on site, buy it in town or bring it with you. So no escalated prices.
5. A free shuttle bus ran from the festival to town and back so people could get to town, stock up on whatever and get back no issues.
To the best of my knowledge, no deaths or significant problems.
I don't buy the argument that providing pill testing will encourage consumption. People are either going to do it or not. Allowing BYO booze instead of charging exorbitant prices in house seems to have an impact, maybe not. If pill testing saves some lives, it's a worthwhile thing.
My kids are past that stage thank geebus, but both experimented with different things when they were younger. I know because they told me. They played russian roulette and lived.
The "personal responsibility" argument also doesn't fly for me in this situation. Young people going to these festivals will (in the main, not all) partake of something to enhance their experience. Dying is not a fair consequence for that decision. So if we can't (or won't) control manufacture and distribution, lets at least put some quality control in place to reduce deaths.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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magpie1946
Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: CAN-BRA
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Well said Stui
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I'm a big dog (two dogs) on a big hunt and I don't have time for a piss-ant on a melon stalk."
STOKE THE STOVE COLLINGWOOD |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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A thread split I have no argument with, it was never a topic that was going to fly on the main board.
And Cheers Magpie 46
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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All we have is the self righteous standing on a soapbox saying drugs are illegal and that's it. We need to remove people off human manufactured drugs and get them back to a natural substance like Marijuana. We can produce that on the Murray Darling Basin using less water so there is water available. Make more dollars by exporting weed as our land makes it economically viable, we could actually do a CWA (Canada Weed Agreement) as they cannot keep up with the demand. It's a weed that grows and grows. Simple's.
Mind you it could spell the end of doof doof. |
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Woods Of Ypres
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Yugoslavia
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tried ecstasy a couple of times around late nineties, i won't lie it was fantastic at the time. tried it again a few years ago, it was rubbish, actually it was scary because i slept for almost 36 hours straight. probably cut with all sorts of substitute chemicals & I imagine these recent deaths are related to these dodgy pills
I will not go near the stuff these days. |
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