Damn, i havent posted on this board for a while, but have checking it every day since it started. I only post when there is something really stupid that happens like today.
At 4 i heard the news on the radio, and they said that we had traded schauble for kinnear- ok, good
ukovic for 2 later draft picks- good again
so i was quite happy, they didnt mention anything else.
Then i watch the news at 6, and i hear that clinton king has been traded for stephen mckee. Ok, now im a bit upset, king was a really good midfielder, half our centre breaks come from him, and id say around half our hard ball gets too. But i told myself i guess mckee (wat i saw of him he wasnt very good) must be a good ruckman which we obviously need, and i guess you have to lose to gain.
Well, soon after, i decided to go on the net and check the age for the full list of trades, and now i find that we have traded our NO.3 PICK!! NO!!! Its no consolation that we have the no.7 from richmond, 4 rankings makes a lot of difference on the quality of the player. Oh the stupidity involved, for a second i believed that overnight, the old recruiting team that got us such stars like jas wild had taken over once agian at vic park. No noel judkins how could you?? Dont we learn from our mistakes, last year we traded the same pick and got shit all. Why couldnt we instead of getting kinnear, just chucked schauble and richo out for mckee instead of kingy and our valued draft pick.
This could be costly. The chances of richmond winning from that trade are 90% to our 10. This mckee guy better be a very good player, and noel judkins and the team better get us a darn good player at no.7. As for the loss of king, i do believe it will affect our midfield, unless we can quickly snap up misiti in the feb. draft, but that seems unlikely.
The best thing out of the day is the loss of schauble tho, he was one shit player, and surely the worst dep. vice cap ever.
Oh, one more thing before i get off this computer, if Pavlich is picked up by richmond at no.3, im not renewing my membership.
Bish
Now im not happy!!!
Moderator: bbmods
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George M
Spot on Bish.
I think everyone that was involved with this King for McKee trade should be sacked immediately.
Judkins should be the first out the door. He is a fake and has proven over the last few years he is not up to it. He built his reputation at a time when no other club had full time recruiting managers. Now that every team has full time scouts, he has been exposed. I have absolutely no time for him as a recruiter. Take Tarrant out of his selections and he has done nothing in 3 years. And the year Tarrant was taken blind Freddy could have picked a quality player at the number.
This trading of the #3 pick is incomprehensible. It defy's belief and common sense. I am with you Bish, if Pavlich is taken at No.3 I'm not renewing.
I think everyone that was involved with this King for McKee trade should be sacked immediately.
Judkins should be the first out the door. He is a fake and has proven over the last few years he is not up to it. He built his reputation at a time when no other club had full time recruiting managers. Now that every team has full time scouts, he has been exposed. I have absolutely no time for him as a recruiter. Take Tarrant out of his selections and he has done nothing in 3 years. And the year Tarrant was taken blind Freddy could have picked a quality player at the number.
This trading of the #3 pick is incomprehensible. It defy's belief and common sense. I am with you Bish, if Pavlich is taken at No.3 I'm not renewing.
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foxy
- Posts: 1301
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 1999 6:01 pm
- Location: melbourne
hey, add wazza to judkin's 'good selection' list thankyou very much. and i wouldn't put the blame solely on him. MM wouldn't have authorised the damn deal if it wasn't suitable. we have to leave it up to them. look, there's no doubt fraser is the standout this year, and we've got him. as happens most years though, there's no absolute standout from the rest of the top 10. pavlich is completely unproven at AFL level so it's usless making judgments on him at this stage. the chance of a great player coming out of the top 10 is always incidental. the great prestige that hovers around having the third pick is a load of crap in the face of a proper surmisation of the top 10 draft choices. and whilst i don't admit to knowing every detail of every potential draftee, i put total faith in MM and his recruiting people. we never had any faith whatsoever in shawry from the word go and look what happened. nothing. from the moment shaw stepped in every collingwood supporter suddenly took on the idea that we were never going to make the 8 with him at the helm.
furthermore - whilst i always like kingy, it's been obvious for years that we have far too many small running onballers at the club. sure, mckee might be average (from what i hear, though i'm yet to judge him myself) but why not have average talls that can make an impact if they play a decent game, rather than average smalls, who even if they can get 25 possies a week, can't make an impact because they can't deliver the bloody ball! if anything getting rid of kingy will see us being able to select a tight-knit, functional midfield with orchard as a probable first-string rover. and if i hear you say he's not worthy of that position then ask yourself why he made the sydney side for 2 years running while kingy ran around in the swans magoos.
furthermore - whilst i always like kingy, it's been obvious for years that we have far too many small running onballers at the club. sure, mckee might be average (from what i hear, though i'm yet to judge him myself) but why not have average talls that can make an impact if they play a decent game, rather than average smalls, who even if they can get 25 possies a week, can't make an impact because they can't deliver the bloody ball! if anything getting rid of kingy will see us being able to select a tight-knit, functional midfield with orchard as a probable first-string rover. and if i hear you say he's not worthy of that position then ask yourself why he made the sydney side for 2 years running while kingy ran around in the swans magoos.
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Charlie
Bish, You made a good point, and I think its important to re-emphasise it: if we recruit Misiti then we will have a strengthened midfield and we can do without king.
King has some very good attributes :
1. Runs all day
2. Presents himself (excellent)
3. Can have many possessions
4. Better than most of the rest.
but :
1. Is pushed off the ball too easily
2. Lacks penetration
3. inconsistant foot delivery
4. Weak handpass
5. Easily outmarked.
As you can see, this presents scope for improvement.
Given the depth of talented youth at the club, we may have not lost out long term.
Essendon has reached its salary cap, so unless they still make secret payments we stand a very good chance for Misiti.
P.S. I would have exchanged 10 other players instead, ie wild, patto, watson, richo etc.
but in the end of the day , we had to swap something of worth for (hopefully) an overall better balanced player list.
King has some very good attributes :
1. Runs all day
2. Presents himself (excellent)
3. Can have many possessions
4. Better than most of the rest.
but :
1. Is pushed off the ball too easily
2. Lacks penetration
3. inconsistant foot delivery
4. Weak handpass
5. Easily outmarked.
As you can see, this presents scope for improvement.
Given the depth of talented youth at the club, we may have not lost out long term.
Essendon has reached its salary cap, so unless they still make secret payments we stand a very good chance for Misiti.
P.S. I would have exchanged 10 other players instead, ie wild, patto, watson, richo etc.
but in the end of the day , we had to swap something of worth for (hopefully) an overall better balanced player list.
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boomer
Bish...My bloody sentiments exactly. Sure...we offloaded one of the most average players of all time (schauble) but to trade the No.3 pick in the draft for Mckee is just nuts. I can assure you Pavlich WILL NOT be playing for us in seasons to come, and you an I both will remember this day as he kicks a lazy 8 against us, while McKee will be running around for Old Xaverians Seconds. By securing McKee for King AND the no.3 pick, we are vindicating our shitenhgousen recruiting record with more shite. I just cant believe that MM McGuire Balme and Judkins could be so thick.
I have watched Pavlich at close hand this year, he plays for a local club...and make no mistake he is a champ. He is 17, massive, mobile, a "thinker", dedicated etc etc. BUT obviously NOT RATED BY COLLINGWOOD. He will be quickly snapped up by the Tigers, who will then, in effect, have traded us McKee and some other 5 ft 7 inch midfielder (who else would we draft) for Pav and King. GREAT DEAL FELLAS. I AM SHATTERED.
I have watched Pavlich at close hand this year, he plays for a local club...and make no mistake he is a champ. He is 17, massive, mobile, a "thinker", dedicated etc etc. BUT obviously NOT RATED BY COLLINGWOOD. He will be quickly snapped up by the Tigers, who will then, in effect, have traded us McKee and some other 5 ft 7 inch midfielder (who else would we draft) for Pav and King. GREAT DEAL FELLAS. I AM SHATTERED.
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George M
Don't stress out too much boomer. Let's cross our fingers that Fremantle take him with the number 2 pick. They have numbers 2,4 and 5 and they need key position players. I'm sure they know that Richmond will want Pavlich, so they will take him at number 2.
A friend of mine spoke to Gary O'Sullivan the Richmond football manager and Richmond can't believe their luck. They are hopeful Pavlich will be available and it is the main reason they wanted number 3 so badly. My friend also overheard O'Sullivan tell Leon Daphne on the phone that there is a chance Pavlich might be available. Let's just hope Fremantle do us the favour.
When you look at it, Fraser and Pavlich are the only two standout players in the draft. If they go in the first 2 picks, having number 7 instead of 3 is not such a big tragedy.
However i don't think i am overstating it when i say this is one of the darkest day's in the Collingwood Football clubs history.
George M.
ps I think i WILL renew my membership, i was frothing at the mouth when i said i wouldn't earlier today.
A friend of mine spoke to Gary O'Sullivan the Richmond football manager and Richmond can't believe their luck. They are hopeful Pavlich will be available and it is the main reason they wanted number 3 so badly. My friend also overheard O'Sullivan tell Leon Daphne on the phone that there is a chance Pavlich might be available. Let's just hope Fremantle do us the favour.
When you look at it, Fraser and Pavlich are the only two standout players in the draft. If they go in the first 2 picks, having number 7 instead of 3 is not such a big tragedy.
However i don't think i am overstating it when i say this is one of the darkest day's in the Collingwood Football clubs history.
George M.
ps I think i WILL renew my membership, i was frothing at the mouth when i said i wouldn't earlier today.
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Newelly
- Posts: 841
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with king lets face it as people have said - he gets the ball but isn't super effective with it. He often gets so much of the ball because oppostion coaches let him run free as he poses no real threat to their teams chances of winning. Also who says pavlich will be a star? Adam Goodes was drafted at 40 something in the draft by sydney and this year picked up the Norwich Rising Star award, while higher draft picks have floundered. The draft by and large is still somewhat of a lottery as all talent is untried at AFL level.
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Adam Felton
I think people are being a bit harsh on Noel Judkins. This year was the most promising year I can remember with young talent. We have Tarrant, Kinnear, Anthony Rocca, Davis, Lockyer and Scotland. All these boys show some class which has been sadly lacking in previous years. I have been a member for 8 years now and over the last five years I've seen us win a few games, lose a few games but never show much promise. This year our reserves looked good and our new recruits look classy. This is because of the recruiting program put in place by Judkins and co. Remember our other recruits.....Godden, wild, shaubs etc. Our new batch are far superior and most likely to take us places.
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Fradam
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 1999 6:01 pm
- Location: Bendigo, Victoria
Everybody who seems to post here is a Collingwood knocker more than a supporter. Im not keen on this Kinnear from Sydney, I've never heard of him, Im not keen on McKee and losing the 3rd pick for hime but I'm sure Malthouse, Judkins, Balme and Co know what they are doing. Im the short term we need a ruckman, Monkhurst's fitness is always under a cloud, Smith isn't up to it, if we draft Fraser he won't be ready this year to make a big controbution so in the short term we need someone. McKee has shown little at Richmond but sometimes players make huge improvements when they change clubs. You gotta take chances when you draft otherwise you go nowhere and it's not like we have anything to lose so Bish even if Palvich is drafted at 3 I urge you to renew your membership as I will mine and lets all bind together and show a bit of support.
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Bish
Dont worry folks, i will be renewing my membership, i just said that coz i was pissed off pretty much at the time.
Maybe in my post i seemed to be knocking Judkins a bit, i wasnt. I think hes done a great job over the last few years, compared to whatever wanker we had in place before. We HAVE got heaps of talent in our team, and it is thanks to him partly, now all we need is a coach to harness that talent = MM, and bang, up we go on the ladder.
I was a bit dissapointed at losing king, but his loss wont be felt if we get misiti, and even if we dont, we have orchard, who is obviously more skillful than king, he just needs to step up into that roving position instead of the back pocket tagger position, which he is certainly better than.
But seriously, if i could talk to anyone at CFC now, id be telling them to go all out for misiti, coz Essendon have absolutely no room left in their salary (are they that crazy that they wold go over it again??) and we have heaps of room on ours. A quality player like misiti is worth the money much more than blumfield. Plus, we still havent got any1 for that feb draft pick, and ill be dissapointed if we dont get someone good.
If freo dont pick up pavlich, i will be extremely dissapointed, but it comes down to whether we can get someone good at no.7 as to whether we win from this trade. Good luck to them. My only consolation for u boomer, is that we got tarrant at no.6, who is a f%#king out and out champion i might add
One more thing, is it true that you get extra draft picks at the end of the draft to make up vacancies on your list. It makes sense, so id rather they do that than leave hacks eg.scotty crow, brad smith(with mckee here GONE!!!!) etc. on our list.
Oh, and collingwood better have started training by now, they shouldnt get an extra holiday for winning the wooden spoon.
Go pies 2000,
Bish
Maybe in my post i seemed to be knocking Judkins a bit, i wasnt. I think hes done a great job over the last few years, compared to whatever wanker we had in place before. We HAVE got heaps of talent in our team, and it is thanks to him partly, now all we need is a coach to harness that talent = MM, and bang, up we go on the ladder.
I was a bit dissapointed at losing king, but his loss wont be felt if we get misiti, and even if we dont, we have orchard, who is obviously more skillful than king, he just needs to step up into that roving position instead of the back pocket tagger position, which he is certainly better than.
But seriously, if i could talk to anyone at CFC now, id be telling them to go all out for misiti, coz Essendon have absolutely no room left in their salary (are they that crazy that they wold go over it again??) and we have heaps of room on ours. A quality player like misiti is worth the money much more than blumfield. Plus, we still havent got any1 for that feb draft pick, and ill be dissapointed if we dont get someone good.
If freo dont pick up pavlich, i will be extremely dissapointed, but it comes down to whether we can get someone good at no.7 as to whether we win from this trade. Good luck to them. My only consolation for u boomer, is that we got tarrant at no.6, who is a f%#king out and out champion i might add
One more thing, is it true that you get extra draft picks at the end of the draft to make up vacancies on your list. It makes sense, so id rather they do that than leave hacks eg.scotty crow, brad smith(with mckee here GONE!!!!) etc. on our list.
Oh, and collingwood better have started training by now, they shouldnt get an extra holiday for winning the wooden spoon.
Go pies 2000,
Bish
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Bish
Quickly fradam, i saw mark kinnear in one of his few games for sydney. For some reason, i had a feeling that we would end up getting him for the sake of having the kinnear brothers on our team, so i observed throughout the match. We wont be dissapointed with this trade, schauble was an absolute dud anyway, all ill say about this guy is that he is IDENTICAL to our kinnear, just younger. Agile, good kick, tall, fast. Kinnear brothers are the wildcards for being very good players for us next year. Watch out opposition teams, weve now got the Kinnear backline (MM is sure to try it).
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boomer
Okay so it is the day after...and following a night of restless sleep, waking up saying "okay I'll give ya the no.7 draft pick for David Cloke" in a sweaty, comatose mumble...I am now ready to think rationaly.
Firstly...we definitely lost on the McKee trade, but I figure that we would not have got Pavlich anyhow. Picks 5-35 are probably a huge gamble. I should be happy that we are going to get the cream (Fraser) right? Unlike Carlscum we will get some players under 23!
Secondly I believe that Ukovic is a handy pick up, and like Bish, think young Kinnear is a worthy addition...
Thirdly, I am trusting the CFC recruiting team, that they now of potential preseason draftees (misiti etc. That is probably when we will see a potential BIG name pick up.
Lastly, when I look at what others picked up I can see that, after all the big names suggested, the pickings were very thin, with maybe the exception of clarke (he would have been ideal).
SO...I'll hang in there, continue to wear my Collingwood Shirt to work (in the heart of CROW country), continue to smile and when we win the flag, get over to Vic Park, hopefully catch up with Bish, Plow, Hotrod, foxy etc and reminisce about these dark days.
Firstly...we definitely lost on the McKee trade, but I figure that we would not have got Pavlich anyhow. Picks 5-35 are probably a huge gamble. I should be happy that we are going to get the cream (Fraser) right? Unlike Carlscum we will get some players under 23!
Secondly I believe that Ukovic is a handy pick up, and like Bish, think young Kinnear is a worthy addition...
Thirdly, I am trusting the CFC recruiting team, that they now of potential preseason draftees (misiti etc. That is probably when we will see a potential BIG name pick up.
Lastly, when I look at what others picked up I can see that, after all the big names suggested, the pickings were very thin, with maybe the exception of clarke (he would have been ideal).
SO...I'll hang in there, continue to wear my Collingwood Shirt to work (in the heart of CROW country), continue to smile and when we win the flag, get over to Vic Park, hopefully catch up with Bish, Plow, Hotrod, foxy etc and reminisce about these dark days.
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Spook
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 6:01 pm
- Location: Melbourne
I doubt we'll get Misiti...he's stalling the Bombers to up his ante...bear in mind that the cap has increased 500K this year and that they can shift two players onto the veterans list (i.e Lobg at 300K) and then suddenly they have a bit of money to spend on retaining Blumfield and Misiti...
McKee could be OK...I've read some good things...we are desperate for a Ruck..I doubt Monky will play a full year, Smith...yeah and Fraser will not be ready. McKee has 3 years senior (although not full years) experiance in a side of talls and he's still young...time will tell. King is still a question mark...look how successful Hirdy has been recovering from a stress fracture.
I can live with the situation as I don't have a choice!
McKee could be OK...I've read some good things...we are desperate for a Ruck..I doubt Monky will play a full year, Smith...yeah and Fraser will not be ready. McKee has 3 years senior (although not full years) experiance in a side of talls and he's still young...time will tell. King is still a question mark...look how successful Hirdy has been recovering from a stress fracture.
I can live with the situation as I don't have a choice!