I just heard that Tony Shaw tipped Fremantle against Collingwood. Does he have something against Collingwood or is he still bitter about getting the sack. I used to have time for Shaw but his views in the media have changed this opinion. Firstly he shouldn't have a bone to pick with Collingwood because he was given ample time to prove his worth as a coach. He put the club back four years. I heard through the grapevine that he has something against Mick Malthouse, maybe this is a reason.
Im glad that Channel Seven lose the rights this year because it will mean we no longer see Shaw's ugly pill. His time as coach harmed his reputation as a club great, his performances in the media are underpinning this reputation further.
I hate to bag a club legend, but in this I have to. There have been many sackings and coups in the history of Collingwood that have ruffled the feathers (pardon the pun) of some club legends. But few of these players hold a grudge against the club like Shaw does.
And to those of you who say what right I have bagging the Shaw name at Collingwood I will compare his familees impact on the club compared to mine, the Coventry's.
Go St Kevin's College Old Boys
Shaw
Moderator: bbmods
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AlfAndrews
Maybe he's just making an honest assessment of who he thinks will win next week. The man's entitled to his opinion.
There is a strong case for picking Freo next week. For one, they beat us in the corresponding match last year. For another thing they got within one point of Carlton last week, so they're obviously in form.
I'll be tipping Freo next week ... partly because I have a policy of ALWAYS tipping against Collingwood. (It's a kind of emotional insurance policy)
And partly because I honestly believe that current form makes us the underdog in this game.
Of course I hope I'm wrong.
But I'm a bit worried that many of our supporters think next week is gunna be a stroll in the park for the Pies.
NO WAY is this match gunna be a cakewalk. I will be absolutely delighted if we get the points ... even if we only win by a point.
Tony Shaw is no longer employed by the Collingwood Football Club. He works for the media and he is required to try to be objective. Whether you agree with him or not is immaterial.
There was another great Collingwood captain who joined the media after he retired from playing footy. And he went on to become the most entertaining football media personality in the history of the game. He NEVER let his love for Collingwood affect his judgement as a commentator. But there would be very few people with a greater love for Collingwood than this man.
Older barrackers will know straight away who I'm talking about.
But the younger ones might need some help.
I'm referring to the incomparable Lou Richards. One of Collingwood's all-time greats.
I never saw Lou Richards play ... Hell, even I'm not THAT old.
But I heard him commentate for many many years ... and he was THE BEST.
But if he didn't think Collingwood could win, he wouldn't tip them.
Lou Richards and Tony Shaw both have a special place in the history of this Club. They were both great players, and they both captained the Magpies to a premiership. They were also both members of families with a long connection to The Club. And, although Shawry possibly might feel some bitterness over his time as Coach, I would be very hesitant to cast any doubts over his love of the Collingwood Football Club.
**floreat pica**
There is a strong case for picking Freo next week. For one, they beat us in the corresponding match last year. For another thing they got within one point of Carlton last week, so they're obviously in form.
I'll be tipping Freo next week ... partly because I have a policy of ALWAYS tipping against Collingwood. (It's a kind of emotional insurance policy)
And partly because I honestly believe that current form makes us the underdog in this game.
Of course I hope I'm wrong.
But I'm a bit worried that many of our supporters think next week is gunna be a stroll in the park for the Pies.
NO WAY is this match gunna be a cakewalk. I will be absolutely delighted if we get the points ... even if we only win by a point.
Tony Shaw is no longer employed by the Collingwood Football Club. He works for the media and he is required to try to be objective. Whether you agree with him or not is immaterial.
There was another great Collingwood captain who joined the media after he retired from playing footy. And he went on to become the most entertaining football media personality in the history of the game. He NEVER let his love for Collingwood affect his judgement as a commentator. But there would be very few people with a greater love for Collingwood than this man.
Older barrackers will know straight away who I'm talking about.
But the younger ones might need some help.
I'm referring to the incomparable Lou Richards. One of Collingwood's all-time greats.
I never saw Lou Richards play ... Hell, even I'm not THAT old.
But I heard him commentate for many many years ... and he was THE BEST.
But if he didn't think Collingwood could win, he wouldn't tip them.
Lou Richards and Tony Shaw both have a special place in the history of this Club. They were both great players, and they both captained the Magpies to a premiership. They were also both members of families with a long connection to The Club. And, although Shawry possibly might feel some bitterness over his time as Coach, I would be very hesitant to cast any doubts over his love of the Collingwood Football Club.
**floreat pica**
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DaicosForever
For all Shaw did as a player is respected but what unfortunatley what burns brighter in our minds is his ineptness at the art of coaching. For all the good.. there is just as much bad...and in any mans language this does not make him a legend. I heard Shaw state last year Collingwood was yrs away from any kind of finals football, it astounded me that not even a year had passed and he was making this statement.It led me to believe whilst he was at Collingwood promising success was around the corner he really was not being honest just attempting to sooth the masses to make his life easier. Now being on of the media 'experts' he can sit back and attempt to be objective and impartial, perhaps not realising the young players at Collingwood listen to him for his opinion because of the status he once enjoyed at collingwood. Unfortunatly if he was a true legend of this club he would support Collingwood in the media as has Lou Richards/ Eddie McGuire & Scott Plamer who are often ridiculed because of their often blinded passion, by their collegues. A Collinwood legend is in it for the long run, not for the satisfaction of the media.
Keep walking Shawy!!!
Louis
Keep walking Shawy!!!
Louis
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CQ
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yes, it is also quite fresh in my mind the 99 season, what shits me most about him is that he goes flocking back to live and kicking or whatever that pathetic unfunny show is and acts like he knows everything, its like partly because of you that we only won 4 games in 99. from stupid decisions like playing williams in the back pocket when he clearly should have been in the midfield like he always was and is.
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Mike
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"what burns brighter in our minds is his ineptness at the art of coaching"
Not true Daics - not for me anyway.
I was always inclined to give Shaw the benefit of the considerable doubt. What I saw was a lot of people with opinions that never had to be subjected to the acid test of match trial.
Everything that Tony Shaw did was in the public eye. He didn't have the luxury of being able to say, it would be better if he did that or didn't do that. He had to try it where everyone could watch. While everyone else had the answers, only Shaw's answers were put under the microscope.
When a team doesn't perform for a long time the coach gets rolled - always, whether or not it's fair and whether or not the problem is with the coaching - Essendon were going to dump Sheedy a couple of seasons back. That's because to bring a Club out of the losing mentality that takes hold after a while, a major change needs to be made to give the team fresh hope and the feeling that things can be different. The easiest major change is always to replace the coach. It's much easier, and cheaper, to change a coach than to change 44 players.
I'm not saying that Tony Shaw was treated unfairly, but what I am saying is that his performance as a coach, has been very harshly judged. There are many people who influence the success of a team - recruiters, football staff, administration, coaching staff and the supporters, but the results, good or bad, are nearly always credited to the Senior Coach.
Having said all that, I have to say that I no longer like Tony Shaw. It wasn't the coaching that did it, it's been his behaviour since he left. The continual digs and cracks at the Club's expense and his continual negativity about the immediate future. What finally finished him for me was one of the episodes of 'The Game' last year. Dunstall, Brereton and Shaw had, for some reason that I can't remember, decided to wear the guernseys of their old Clubs. Dunstan and Brereton came out in Hawthorn guernseys and Shaw wore an ESSENDON guernsey. This is Tony Shaw, Club legend and member of one of our greatest Club families.
What burns brightest in my mind is Tony Shaw's defection.
A lot of people finish their posts with a motto - I'll use a quote from Tony Shaw that he seems to have forgotten.
"If anyone tells you that they used to barrack for Collingwood - they never did"
Not true Daics - not for me anyway.
I was always inclined to give Shaw the benefit of the considerable doubt. What I saw was a lot of people with opinions that never had to be subjected to the acid test of match trial.
Everything that Tony Shaw did was in the public eye. He didn't have the luxury of being able to say, it would be better if he did that or didn't do that. He had to try it where everyone could watch. While everyone else had the answers, only Shaw's answers were put under the microscope.
When a team doesn't perform for a long time the coach gets rolled - always, whether or not it's fair and whether or not the problem is with the coaching - Essendon were going to dump Sheedy a couple of seasons back. That's because to bring a Club out of the losing mentality that takes hold after a while, a major change needs to be made to give the team fresh hope and the feeling that things can be different. The easiest major change is always to replace the coach. It's much easier, and cheaper, to change a coach than to change 44 players.
I'm not saying that Tony Shaw was treated unfairly, but what I am saying is that his performance as a coach, has been very harshly judged. There are many people who influence the success of a team - recruiters, football staff, administration, coaching staff and the supporters, but the results, good or bad, are nearly always credited to the Senior Coach.
Having said all that, I have to say that I no longer like Tony Shaw. It wasn't the coaching that did it, it's been his behaviour since he left. The continual digs and cracks at the Club's expense and his continual negativity about the immediate future. What finally finished him for me was one of the episodes of 'The Game' last year. Dunstall, Brereton and Shaw had, for some reason that I can't remember, decided to wear the guernseys of their old Clubs. Dunstan and Brereton came out in Hawthorn guernseys and Shaw wore an ESSENDON guernsey. This is Tony Shaw, Club legend and member of one of our greatest Club families.
What burns brightest in my mind is Tony Shaw's defection.
A lot of people finish their posts with a motto - I'll use a quote from Tony Shaw that he seems to have forgotten.
"If anyone tells you that they used to barrack for Collingwood - they never did"
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Fletch
Mike, I think I remember Shaw tried to justify wearing an Essendon guernsey on last years show by saying "I had bet on them to go through the season undefeated". I guess it's comforting to know now that the little traitor lost money.
I'd love to be able to say nowdays that Shaw is best remembered as the 1990 premiership captain, Norm Smith medalist and the games record holder at the club, but sadly he's nothing but a little pissant. Also lets not forget last year on the Game when he tried to humiliate our great club, coach and current captain by doing that stupid phone prank, luckily it backfired and everyone who counts knew who the real idiot was. And to think this was the same man who appeared on that Ad campaign 5/6 years ago urgeing all Collingwood supporters to buy memeberships, it certainly got my attention everytime he would hold up the famous Black and White guernsey and say "I could never give in when I wore this".
How times have changed.
Plus he is always laying the boots into the club every chance he gets, his current prediction that Freo will role us this week is atrocious and should be a hangable offence.
I would have been willing to forgive his unsuccessful coaching stint(afterall the Rose administration who appointed him in the first place must take some of the blame). But his continual attacks have pissed me off, like many others. If only he could realise how stupid he looks and sounds.
"We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields, and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill
I'd love to be able to say nowdays that Shaw is best remembered as the 1990 premiership captain, Norm Smith medalist and the games record holder at the club, but sadly he's nothing but a little pissant. Also lets not forget last year on the Game when he tried to humiliate our great club, coach and current captain by doing that stupid phone prank, luckily it backfired and everyone who counts knew who the real idiot was. And to think this was the same man who appeared on that Ad campaign 5/6 years ago urgeing all Collingwood supporters to buy memeberships, it certainly got my attention everytime he would hold up the famous Black and White guernsey and say "I could never give in when I wore this".
How times have changed.
Plus he is always laying the boots into the club every chance he gets, his current prediction that Freo will role us this week is atrocious and should be a hangable offence.
I would have been willing to forgive his unsuccessful coaching stint(afterall the Rose administration who appointed him in the first place must take some of the blame). But his continual attacks have pissed me off, like many others. If only he could realise how stupid he looks and sounds.
"We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields, and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!" -Winston Churchill
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Mike
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...and another thing.
Nick turned 6 in September 1990, and for him Tony Shaw epitomised every thing he loved about Collingwood. Six and a half years later on the 8th March 1997, at the age of 12, he sat beside Shaw as he coached the Pies against Melbourne at a preseason match in Devonport. I sat beside Nick and we will both remember that day for the rest of our lives.
Tony Shaw was the custodian of thousands, tens of thousands, of kids' dreams and aspirations. He was a hero, an untouchable legend, beyond the foibles and weaknesses of us mere humans. That's too much responsibility for anyone to carry, but those who rise to carry those dreams have a responsibility to at least remember and respect.
That's what I don't like about Tony Shaw. I'm angry with him for tainting my son's dream and for devalueing the memory of a once in a life time experience. We will both always carry that memory... but somehow it doesn't quite feel the same.
I know that is unfair, but it's human.
Nick turned 6 in September 1990, and for him Tony Shaw epitomised every thing he loved about Collingwood. Six and a half years later on the 8th March 1997, at the age of 12, he sat beside Shaw as he coached the Pies against Melbourne at a preseason match in Devonport. I sat beside Nick and we will both remember that day for the rest of our lives.
Tony Shaw was the custodian of thousands, tens of thousands, of kids' dreams and aspirations. He was a hero, an untouchable legend, beyond the foibles and weaknesses of us mere humans. That's too much responsibility for anyone to carry, but those who rise to carry those dreams have a responsibility to at least remember and respect.
That's what I don't like about Tony Shaw. I'm angry with him for tainting my son's dream and for devalueing the memory of a once in a life time experience. We will both always carry that memory... but somehow it doesn't quite feel the same.
I know that is unfair, but it's human.
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mike b
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- Location: melbourne, victoria, australia
Sorry, but I don't see the justification for the personal cristicism. I'm not defending his coaching, because he was unsuccessful and the dumb comment in 2000 about the club still being a few years away (a fair indictment on his own time as a coach and the driver of recruiting) was ham-fisted.
However, he was brave enough to take the job on when the list was pretty crappy or ageing to start off with and he did develop many of the kids who are starting to show a bit now. Let's not forget, he jumped the gun in resigning and used the 2nd half of 1999 to get some games under the belts of guys of the future like Presti.
I think he has Collingwood at heart. We shouldn't get too precious if he wears a Bomber jumper on a variety (I dare not say comedy) show. Also, I listen to him a fair bit on 3AW and I don't think he is disrespectful to the club.
He was brilliant in 1990, especially the GF and he epitomised many of the things I would like to see in the players today - toughness, accuracy of disposal (okay, okay - over 30 metres), smart-arsed, coolness under pressure, absolute focus on winning. A couple of those types would have been handy in the dying moments last Saturday.
However, he was brave enough to take the job on when the list was pretty crappy or ageing to start off with and he did develop many of the kids who are starting to show a bit now. Let's not forget, he jumped the gun in resigning and used the 2nd half of 1999 to get some games under the belts of guys of the future like Presti.
I think he has Collingwood at heart. We shouldn't get too precious if he wears a Bomber jumper on a variety (I dare not say comedy) show. Also, I listen to him a fair bit on 3AW and I don't think he is disrespectful to the club.
He was brilliant in 1990, especially the GF and he epitomised many of the things I would like to see in the players today - toughness, accuracy of disposal (okay, okay - over 30 metres), smart-arsed, coolness under pressure, absolute focus on winning. A couple of those types would have been handy in the dying moments last Saturday.
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Joel
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You know, talking about this stuff always makes me remember an afternoon my brother and I spent with him and Craig Kelly about 8 years ago..1993 I think. Shawry was an absolute legend to us that day, probably spent 3 hours playing handball comps and stuff. I just don't believe he could change so much.
I believe that Eddie needs to talk to Shaw, we don't need to lose a legend of the club. Tony was once described as "Collingwood personified", I think he still think he has the same black and white blood he has always had.
I could never hate or dislike Shaw, not matter how much he disregards the club because one day he will return.
However I believe that it would be demoralising for Rhyce Shaw to hear comments that Tony makes, maybe he should consider that.
I will leave it there because I'm starting to make no sense.
[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 03 April 2001).]
I believe that Eddie needs to talk to Shaw, we don't need to lose a legend of the club. Tony was once described as "Collingwood personified", I think he still think he has the same black and white blood he has always had.
I could never hate or dislike Shaw, not matter how much he disregards the club because one day he will return.
However I believe that it would be demoralising for Rhyce Shaw to hear comments that Tony makes, maybe he should consider that.
I will leave it there because I'm starting to make no sense.
[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 03 April 2001).]
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Scottie Davo
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- Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
RCT,
Just a quick point to you, there is no need to make defensive comments whenever you speak your mind in here mate. We all know you are true B and W so whatever you say is looked upon by us as only wanting to further the Club's cause.
But equally, there is also no need to highlight your family name time and time again to justify your comments.
I'm not too sure the legends of Collingwood need to reinstate their name when making opinions. All Collingwood supporters are equal.
See ya.
In my blood...and off my head.
Just a quick point to you, there is no need to make defensive comments whenever you speak your mind in here mate. We all know you are true B and W so whatever you say is looked upon by us as only wanting to further the Club's cause.
But equally, there is also no need to highlight your family name time and time again to justify your comments.
I'm not too sure the legends of Collingwood need to reinstate their name when making opinions. All Collingwood supporters are equal.
See ya.
In my blood...and off my head.
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PaulF
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2 PIES IN CAIRNS
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- Location: Cairns, QLD.
I've got mixed feelings. Tony Shaw up to and including 1990 was fantastic. We all called him "CC" - "Captain Courageous". I can't ever forget October 6, 1990 - I was lucky enough to have been there at "The G" , and at Vic Park for the rest of the night. I remember his brother , Ray, before him> Unfortunately, his good deeds through his career were overshadowed by an indiscretion which means he is remembered as "Captain Spit". I remember the many drinks with Ray and Tony's dad when he worked/drank at the Duke of Wellington in Flinders St. I see the pride and endeavour in young Rhys as he strives to do what his dad and uncle did. Tony's doing a job now - he is being paid to be controversial- what could be more so than an ex Collingwood skipper bagging us__? I can remember Des Tuddenham telling me that all he lived for was Collingwood! Within 2 months he was at Essendon - Footy hasn't been the same since for me.
But I still love the Pies !!!
;'fk, b3dsrets `
But I still love the Pies !!!
;'fk, b3dsrets `
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Mike
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Now that I've spat my dummy and said my bit about Tony Shaw, I'm feeling guilty.
The truth is that the only reason that I could feel that anger is because Tony Shaw is the legend that he is.
This is a bloke that did 3 paper rounds on foot as a kid so that he could buy a bike to get to the footy. This is a bloke who was initially rejected as a VFL footballer because he wasn't good enough. This is a bloke whose dogged determination and persistance got him into the Club and eventually through sheer guts and drive, that I can't even imagine, culminated in him holding the Premiership cup as Captain of the greatest club in the land.
His history as a footballer at Collingwood is enough to excuse anything that he may have done since.
His obvious bitterness since leaving the coaching job is probably understandable, he was the fall guy for everything that was wrong in the Club during that period of time. It's the coach's lot in life, but a shocking way to end a magnificent career.
My anger should be directed at those who deserve it. In this instance it's the media and in particular Channel 7 who seem to have cast Tony as Curly in the 'Three Stooges' of 'The Game' as they continue into their 3rd season of learning that footballers don't make media personalities. Channel 7 seem to be totally unscrupulous in their use of Tony's bitterness to set up scenarios obviously designed to embarrass the Collingwood Football Club and the Footy Show. They are so out of touch that they can't see the obvious - the Footy Show works because it has a media professional as a host - not a footballer looking for a second career and in their misguided efforts to claw ratings from 9 they are destroying a Magpie legend.
So I apologise for my previous outburst and will, in future, continue to avoid The Game.
The truth is that the only reason that I could feel that anger is because Tony Shaw is the legend that he is.
This is a bloke that did 3 paper rounds on foot as a kid so that he could buy a bike to get to the footy. This is a bloke who was initially rejected as a VFL footballer because he wasn't good enough. This is a bloke whose dogged determination and persistance got him into the Club and eventually through sheer guts and drive, that I can't even imagine, culminated in him holding the Premiership cup as Captain of the greatest club in the land.
His history as a footballer at Collingwood is enough to excuse anything that he may have done since.
His obvious bitterness since leaving the coaching job is probably understandable, he was the fall guy for everything that was wrong in the Club during that period of time. It's the coach's lot in life, but a shocking way to end a magnificent career.
My anger should be directed at those who deserve it. In this instance it's the media and in particular Channel 7 who seem to have cast Tony as Curly in the 'Three Stooges' of 'The Game' as they continue into their 3rd season of learning that footballers don't make media personalities. Channel 7 seem to be totally unscrupulous in their use of Tony's bitterness to set up scenarios obviously designed to embarrass the Collingwood Football Club and the Footy Show. They are so out of touch that they can't see the obvious - the Footy Show works because it has a media professional as a host - not a footballer looking for a second career and in their misguided efforts to claw ratings from 9 they are destroying a Magpie legend.
So I apologise for my previous outburst and will, in future, continue to avoid The Game.
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ellaness
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DaicosForever
After all that has been said I'am still not feeling sympathetic or even sentimental about the guy. I guess its a characteristic flaw in all of us to blame others, but I aim to critiscize the person who was/is the most accountble at a footy club, ie the coach. I often argue that a footy coach makes up for 50 percent of the success of a club so I guess my bitterness towards shaw is an extension of that mentality. I dont see him as a fall guy Mike, I see him as an opportunist who lost his sense of the bigger picture. I felt he lacked perspective and I realised he was in over his head the day he pleaded for advice from Collingwood supporters in regards to how he can get Sav Rocca and a few others to play better. He did this publicly and embarrased himself and his players. He lost my respect and this is the foundation by which I say he lost his ability in the art of coaching. I have never seen Pagan/Malthouse/Sheedy?Blight make such an idiotic plea to supporters. And I dont think the pressure of leading a club with a huge public profile is an excuse either. To me its no different to what Sheedy/Malthouse/Pagan or anyone else is confronted with on a daily basis. I dont doubt its cutthroat.I also dont feel he took on the job when the list was crappy.
He had S Rooca/Brown/Crosisca/Francis/McGuane/Monky/Russell/, at least he had a core which is more then Malthouse had when he got here. I want to make the point that he virtually destroyed careers at Collingwood, A Rocca was a prodigy at Sydney under Baraasi but 2 years after coming down to Collingwood he was showing only glimpses of what he had shown Sydney. Sav Kicked 90 odd goals as a 22 year old under the guidance of Leigh Matthews and his career looked like it could rival a Lockett, after Matthews took off Shaw systematically destroyed his confidence and destroyed the player. I give no credit to shaw for the side that runs around out there today...there is like 4 players left there from his days as coach and I do see this as a positive. He let his conflicts and differences interfere with his decision making.Everone knew he did not get along with players such as Francis/McGuane and to a costly extent BJames who went on too play in a dual premiership side...Sure BJames is out of the picture now but no one can can deny he would have been useful,Blight was capable of turning him in too a quality centreman why wasn't Shaw???????Ayres got rid of him only because he is also extrmely average when it comes to coaching....
I guess my bitterness runs deep and people may say i'am being
unfair but after his coaching stint and his pathetic foray in media where he is indirectly distancing himself with Collingwood
I cannot feel anyother way..................
Louis
[This message has been edited by DaicosForever (edited 05 April 2001).]
He had S Rooca/Brown/Crosisca/Francis/McGuane/Monky/Russell/, at least he had a core which is more then Malthouse had when he got here. I want to make the point that he virtually destroyed careers at Collingwood, A Rocca was a prodigy at Sydney under Baraasi but 2 years after coming down to Collingwood he was showing only glimpses of what he had shown Sydney. Sav Kicked 90 odd goals as a 22 year old under the guidance of Leigh Matthews and his career looked like it could rival a Lockett, after Matthews took off Shaw systematically destroyed his confidence and destroyed the player. I give no credit to shaw for the side that runs around out there today...there is like 4 players left there from his days as coach and I do see this as a positive. He let his conflicts and differences interfere with his decision making.Everone knew he did not get along with players such as Francis/McGuane and to a costly extent BJames who went on too play in a dual premiership side...Sure BJames is out of the picture now but no one can can deny he would have been useful,Blight was capable of turning him in too a quality centreman why wasn't Shaw???????Ayres got rid of him only because he is also extrmely average when it comes to coaching....
I guess my bitterness runs deep and people may say i'am being
unfair but after his coaching stint and his pathetic foray in media where he is indirectly distancing himself with Collingwood
I cannot feel anyother way..................
Louis
[This message has been edited by DaicosForever (edited 05 April 2001).]