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rocketronnie wrote:In relation to the Trauma Myth. A six year old boy being penetrated anally by the average erect male penis is not inherently traumatic? Give me a break! Ever seen forensic photographs of the aftermath of such things David?
Clancy makes the fairly elementary distinction between violent sexual abuse and non-violent, as any sensible person would. The latter makes up the majority of child sexual abuse cases, as I'm sure you're well aware. She's obviously not asserting that a raped six year-old would not be traumatised by the act itself; I don't know why you'd even think of using that to discredit her.
As for violation, betrayal, destruction of trust and alienation, all of those terms and ideas occur frequently throughout her text, by the way. As I said, it is a profound weakness of Henley's piece that he did not address this; it leads to the unfortunate (undoubtedly unintentional) implication that he has dismissed it.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
rocketronnie wrote:In relation to the Trauma Myth. A six year old boy being penetrated anally by the average erect male penis is not inherently traumatic? Give me a break! Ever seen forensic photographs of the aftermath of such things David?
Clancy makes the fairly elementary distinction between violent sexual abuse and non-violent, as any sensible person would. The latter makes up the majority of child sexual abuse cases, as I'm sure you're well aware. She's obviously not asserting that a raped six year-old would not be traumatised by the act itself; I don't know why you'd even think of using that to discredit her.
As for violation, betrayal, destruction of trust and alienation, all of those terms and ideas occur frequently throughout her text, by the way. As I said, it is a profound weakness of Henley's piece that he did not address this; it leads to the unfortunate (undoubtedly unintentional) implication that he has dismissed it.
I'm talking about "non-violent" penetration David. You have no idea what you are talking about on this topic per usual.
No I'm not aware of that minimizing distinction btw. Child sexual abuse by its nature is inherently violent. All that differs is the severity of the assault. To suggest its not traumatic if it doesn't involve rape is a proposition that would be rejected by everyone except a marginal fringe with no credibility in the field.
Good one treating Watson's reply like it doesn't exist btw. It seems Henley and his convicted pedo propagandists have more credence for you.
BTW what do NAMBLA say about the issue?
"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad".
Dave, all due respect, have you hard much personal experience with people who have been the subject of these kind of situations?
I haven't, so I'm happy to acknowledge I'm talking from a largely theoretical perspective and often my perspective as a parent puts emotion in front of logic.
I accept you argue things usually from the rational not the emotional, which is what I usually try to do (not always successfully) but personally I'd be inclined to give RR's first hand experience in the area more weight than what you seem to be doing.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
I don't have a problem with David's approach to things. He approaches a topic analytically and devoid of emotion, as you should when looking for facts. (spoken by a bloke with the emotional range of a teaspoon of salt)
Research and theory is one thing, life experience is another, neither hold all the answers, neither is necessarily superior. Combination of both is ideal.
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
David your points are well made. Most professionals who work within the field are well aware of the phenomena you describe. Whether destigmatising pedophilia generally would alter that is open to debate - it may be a two edged sword. Reduction of such stigma etc for victims or survivors is much needed however. Somehow a differentiation between perpetrators and victims/survivors needs to be made. Other techniques such as reducing self blame and working on self image are also over time effective. Culturally based shame and guilt is one element of very complex behavioural and psychological presentations that can take years to resolve if at all. Some manifestations such as Borderline Personality Disorders are unlikely to ever be resolved however.
Its all an area where much work needs to be done. A bottomless pit....
"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad".
The greatest issue faced by these men and women is not necessarily their attraction to minors itself- this is something that many learn to handle themselves insofar as either remaining completely celibate in cases where they are exclusively attracted to minors, or having legal relationships in cases where they have non-exclusive attractions to both adults and minors. Far more grappling a problem for them is the fact that the vast majority have nowhere to turn outside the relatively impersonal space provided by online forums. The stigma created by the label of paedophilia means today that thousands of people around the world must keep their attraction suppressed, creating overwhelming loneliness and depression. Those who have sought professional help to overcome their attraction face either rejection or the police: "I could have received therapy if my counsellor had not abandoned me without a referral."
Gary preparing his pick-up for a trip to collect firewood. "I may be crazy for being so open about my paedophilia, but I have less to lose and nothing to hide. I am retired and have no children at home. I know there are vigilantes but I trust God to protect me."
Sammy (33) has been aware of his attraction for 20 years. "When I was 10, the first time I ejaculated was thinking about a 5-year-old girl that I had seen that day. She was wearing a pretty white dress. I remember thinking it was kind of ... odd. When I was about 15, I fell in love with a 3-year-old girl. At that point it was impossible to deny that I was a paedophile."
Having been aware of his attraction since his early teens, Jack involved himself with the gay social circles at high school - identifying with their own coming-to-terms with their sexuality. Despite trying to date a couple of guys, he never found himself interested in men his own age, though he still had to 'come out' as gay in order to hide his true attraction. He still finds himself having to maintain a homosexual facade in front of many of his friends who don't know the real nature of his sexuality.
Despite having been in a relationship with his husband for the past nine years, Ian has never come out to either him or anyone else. On meeting, I was the first person he had ever met in real life that knew about his attraction. "[Coming out to my husband] is something I've been thinking about lately, but I definitely don't want to make any snap decisions. There are so many things I need to take into consideration."
Well worth a look.
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
