Russia invades Ukraine

HAL · Post by **HAL** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:07 pm

Did you believe him?

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:22 am

My knowledge on the topic is reasonably limited.

One thing caught my eye though that seemed rather strange in the current climate -
A hero of the Ukrainian people, Wladimir Klitschko, wore red trunks and red gloves with yellow thumbs when defending the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world yesterday. The Ukrainian National Anthem was performed prior to the bout, and he celebrated his win with the Ukrainian flag, but Soviet Union coloured kit??????????????
(the other Ukrainian on the undercard wore red also.....)

Post by **David** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:09 pm

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:10 pm

^I think that would be his (less active in the boxing ring these days) older brother Vitale????

HAL · Post by **HAL** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:14 pm

What kind of food do you like?

Post by **David** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:23 pm

Ah, yes, you're possibly right. Too many Klitschkos!

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:40 pm

Your point remains equally as valid though.
Having said that - is there possibly some merit in a "cartoon hero" style president in times like this, providing there is an honourable person pulling the strings????
Could really bring people together???

Post by **David** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:14 pm

I doubt it. His appeal would be mostly populist, and populism tends to only lead to simplicity and knee-jerk decision-making. Ukraine is caught in an extremely precarious situation here, and it'll take intelligent and experienced political figures to get them through it. It's not a time for sporting 'heroes', imho.

Post by **stui magpie** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:46 pm

Populism also leads to getting elected in the first place, which is something you need in order to be able to do those things.

But as far as discounting sporting heroes based on intelligence and experience, he's been actively involved in politics for 7 years, is currently a party leader and MP and

Klitschko was the first professional boxing world champion to hold a PhD degree.

so he's no dunce either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitali_Klitschko

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:12 pm

^Ha! Goes to show one shouldn't judge a book by its cover!!
He's more qualified to be an MP than Peter Garrett or Justin Madden were when they got in.

(I didn't know he'd been as active in politics for so long myself, despite following his boxing career...... I did know about the PhD)

Ok, so back to those more au fait with the situation - which side of the fence does Vitali's Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Reform Party sit on??
I would guess they're aligning with Putin based on the colours his brother wore on the weekend with himself actively cheerleading from the corner.

(I know I could google an answer such as this - I'm more looking for people's views on what's going down.......)

Post by **stui magpie** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:12 pm

Interesting question and observation about the red and yellow. Not much doubt it was a political statement but by whom would be the question.

I read something today that drew a long bow between Russia being supportive (or at least not obstructive) of the US and other attempts to get Iran to voluntarily wind back their nuclear program, and the US mouthing platitudes but not doing much else in response to the Russian occupation of the Ukraine.

The inference was it was a trade off. Russia gets Ukraine, USA gets a nuclear free iran.

Post by **David** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:26 pm

King Monkey wrote:^Ha! Goes to show one shouldn't judge a book by its cover!!
He's more qualified to be an MP than Peter Garrett or Justin Madden were when they got in.
(I didn't know he'd been as active in politics for so long myself, despite following his boxing career...... I did know about the PhD)

Ok, so back to those more au fait with the situation - which side of the fence does Vitali's Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Reform Party sit on??
I would guess they're aligning with Putin based on the colours his brother wore on the weekend with himself actively cheerleading from the corner.

(I know I could google an answer such as this - I'm more looking for people's views on what's going down.......)

It looks like he's very much pro-EU and anti-Russia, although it's hard to discern much of his domestic policy from the article I read. He proposes lower taxes, which doesn't look good, but also better treatment of prisoners which is impressive (not a populist position by any means). What impresses me most is his staunch, vocal opposition to government corruption, though it's one thing to say so and another to actually put it into practice!

...but, then, this is all academic because it turns out he's (at least for the time being) withdrawn from the presidential race and supported the caretaker government. Perhaps I judged him too harshly.

Tannin · Post by **Tannin** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:34 pm

King Monkey wrote:He's more qualified to be an MP than Peter Garrett or Justin Madden were when they got in.

I don't know much about Madden, but Garrett had excellent qualifications for the job. He spent the years prior to starting in parliament in a high-pressure, high-visibility senior management position with a major national non-profit organisation, dealing with policy, public contact, and coordination of a wide range of member groups, each with their own agenda. Garrett quickly overcame widespread initial skepticism from within the organisation and soon established himself as one of the most successful and effective leaders in its history.

So far as I know he has never said this, but I strongly suspect that Garrett was taken aback, on his entry into politics, by the prevalence of personal dishonesty, greed, and vindictiveness amongst his Canberra colleagues, including not a few members of his own party. If so, he would not be the first good man, nor the last to enter politics only to be bitterly disappointed by the low moral and intellectual qualities of his peers.

Edit: Don't know anything about his qualifications (if any) but Madden was a terrible Planing Minister. However, I don't think we have had a good one for as long as I can remember. Shonks the lot of them, and the current one, Matthew Guy, is the worst and shonkiest yet.

Wokko · Post by **Wokko** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:04 am

He also stood for the Nuclear Disarmament Party prior to joining Labor and missed a spot on preferences when Labor preferenced the Liberals over him.

Don't know how involved he was with the party, but he was their headlining candidate.

Tannin · Post by **Tannin** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:31 am

Thanks Wokko, I'd completely forgotten about that. He always seemed to be an odd fit for the Labor Party. Why he didn't join the Greens, where they love and honour straightforward, dedicated people, especially if they are a bit weird, is beyond me. Presumably, he thought that he needed to be in one of the major parties if he was ever going to be able to do any good, and decided that, on balance, Labor seemed to be slightly less worse than the Liberals, and marginally more intelligent than the Nationals (which I admit isn't difficult),

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Russia invades Ukraine