Post match. Pies smash Saints - All comments please.

[RudeBoy]

^like a lot of this post but identifying Ramsay and Crisp as capable kicks is ludicrous.

Nonsense. I'm commenting on the game vs St Vomit. You are commenting on their general reputations. Watch last night's game and you will see: both players disposed of the pill more than effectively. You can argue that this was just a flash in the pan if you wish (and you might be right), but you certainly can't equate either player's kicking with that of the likes of Toovey, Cloke and Williams.

Tannin is spot on.

[jackcass]

^like a lot of this post but identifying Ramsay and Crisp as capable kicks is ludicrous.

Nonsense. I'm commenting on the game vs St Vomit. You are commenting on their general reputations. Watch last night's game and you will see: both players disposed of the pill more than effectively. You can argue that this was just a flash in the pan if you wish (and you might be right), but you certainly can't equate either player's kicking with that of the likes of Toovey, Cloke and Williams.

Tannin is spot on.

In general I think there's a bit too much classification of players based on the worst of what they do. Watched 3 quarters of the game thus far on tv after attending live Friday and yes Tooves and Williams (and a few others) are prone to a clanger or 2 but they also have times when they use it very well. It's probably too late for Tooves to eradicate the clanger from his repertoire but equally his pass to Elliott in the goal square was beautiful. Williams is still young and I'm hoping his ball use gradually improves. Ditto Ramsay who I never thought was that bad anyway. Ditto Frost.

[roar]

As those of us who've watched his VFL game have always known. Another couple of preseasons and he'll be more than handy.

It's always an extra special feeling to see a kid who you have been watching for the last couple of years hit the big time for the whole world to see.

Beautiful.

Very sweet, same goes for Ox.

Yep, and dare I say, Ramsay, too.

[Tannin]

It's probably too late for Tooves to eradicate the clanger from his repertoire but equally his pass to Elliott in the goal square was beautiful.

Yes, but to be fair, he was aiming for Grundy on the southern wing.

[stui magpie]

.
[*] Gault was the other reason. Yep, he had a shocker: couldn't get the ball to stick and looked lost a lot of the time, but cut the kid some slack: it was wet, and it was under lights. How many wet night games has he played before? (Ans: none.) He'll learn from it and he won't get towelled up like that again. Even so, just the fact that he was there meant that Cloke and White and Elliott were able to get on the end of a few. We play so, so much better with a third genuine tall forward in the side. (You could slot someone like Moore in instead, most likely that would work just as well or better, and we already know that Reid can do the same.) I couldn't work out why Gault wasn't given any ruck duty. (At least none that I could see on my low-res replay.) Previously, Gault has been preferred to White as the second ruck, and has done well in the role. Why change now? Either they thought that White needed the run and confidence even more than Gault did, or perhaps they looked at that mean man-mountain ruckman St Vomit have and thought it would be wiser not to throw the kid in against him. Dunno: they should have given him a crack at it anyway.

I agree and disagree.

I thought he presented well, but couldn't hold his marks. I don't agree he looked lost, I thought he showed some valuable nouse when the ball was on the ground and he does do the 1%ers and bring others into the game. In fact according to the AFL stats he got 6 1%ers for the game, equal ith Goldsack and only beaten by Frost with 12.

His mobility really helps as he may be in competition with White for a spot if Witts comes back and we play 2 rucks, but for me it shows we must play 3 tall forwards.

[thompsoc]

I watched the game again on replay and
I was pleasantly surprised at what Gault did
around the ball. He did drop a few marks but he
was good with his hands with the ball.

[Raw Hammer]

Gault slipped over or went to ground nearly every time he went to the ball. Needs to get this out of his game.

[Mossi]

Nonsense. I'm commenting on the game vs St Vomit. You are commenting on their general reputations. Watch last night's game and you will see: both players disposed of the pill more than effectively. You can argue that this was just a flash in the pan if you wish (and you might be right), but you certainly can't equate either player's kicking with that of the likes of Toovey, Cloke and Williams.

Tannin is spot on.

In general I think there's a bit too much classification of players based on the worst of what they do. Watched 3 quarters of the game thus far on tv after attending live Friday and yes Tooves and Williams (and a few others) are prone to a clanger or 2 but they also have times when they use it very well. It's probably too late for Tooves to eradicate the clanger from his repertoire but equally his pass to Elliott in the goal square was beautiful. Williams is still young and I'm hoping his ball use gradually improves. Ditto Ramsay who I never thought was that bad anyway. Ditto Frost.

We need to understand that both Williams and Tooves are our in and under defenders and a lot of the time they are kicking out of defence they are under pressure or while being tackled so I would cut em some slack.

[Tannin]

I agree, Mossi, and that goes for Adams as well or even more so - not a defender but right in the middle of the pack where it's hot.

Sadly, Tooves in particular seems to have a magical ability to butcher it when not under pressure too. Adams has brainfades (I reckon he will get over them in time though), and Williams .... I'm not sure what to make of Williams this year. He doesn't seem to be the player I thought he'd be.

[Tannin]

.
[*] Gault was the other reason. Yep, he had a shocker: couldn't get the ball to stick and looked lost a lot of the time, but cut the kid some slack: it was wet, and it was under lights. How many wet night games has he played before? (Ans: none.) He'll learn from it and he won't get towelled up like that again. Even so, just the fact that he was there meant that Cloke and White and Elliott were able to get on the end of a few. We play so, so much better with a third genuine tall forward in the side. (You could slot someone like Moore in instead, most likely that would work just as well or better, and we already know that Reid can do the same.) I couldn't work out why Gault wasn't given any ruck duty. (At least none that I could see on my low-res replay.) Previously, Gault has been preferred to White as the second ruck, and has done well in the role. Why change now? Either they thought that White needed the run and confidence even more than Gault did, or perhaps they looked at that mean man-mountain ruckman St Vomit have and thought it would be wiser not to throw the kid in against him. Dunno: they should have given him a crack at it anyway.

I agree and disagree.

I thought he presented well, but couldn't hold his marks. I don't agree he looked lost, I thought he showed some valuable nouse when the ball was on the ground and he does do the 1%ers and bring others into the game. In fact according to the AFL stats he got 6 1%ers for the game, equal ith Goldsack and only beaten by Frost with 12.

His mobility really helps as he may be in competition with White for a spot if Witts comes back and we play 2 rucks, but for me it shows we must play 3 tall forwards.

Largely agree, Stui, "lost" was a poorly chosen word. His big problem on the night seemed to me to be dropping all those marks he'd normally swallow whole. I put it down to a combination of wet ball and playing under the MCG lights for (probably) the first time. Plus I think that the Vomiter standing him played very well on the night: good, close checking punch-from-behind defending. He needs to learn how to deal with that. I reckon he can. Whether he can do it fast enough to make a spot his own before Moore comes along instead, that remains to be seen. I'd hate to see a traded or delisted Gault pop up as a regular for bloody Hawthorn like Ceglar.

[Mossi]

I agree, Mossi, and that goes for Adams as well or even more so - not a defender but right in the middle of the pack where it's hot.

Sadly, Tooves in particular seems to have a magical ability to butcher it when not under pressure too. Adams has brainfades (I reckon he will get over them in time though), and Williams .... I'm not sure what to make of Williams this year. He doesn't seem to be the player I thought he'd be.

Agree with you on Tooves he butchered at least two kicks that could have lead to scoring opportunities ...... Williams seemed to have the close checking tag on the oppositions small forward. Seems to be tagging more than defending. Still tooves and Williams are both there to present as the first option to get us out of trouble. Usually they do a good job and a lot of clangers happen in that moment! Tooves, apart from those kicks has really made his presents felt and is more physical than his ever been.

[Tannin]

Yep, Tooves's disposal is a weakness sure enough, but it's just about the only flaw in his game. In this form, he'd have to be one of the first picked. Williams I'm not so sure about though. He's not winning enough one-ones at present to fully make up for his ball-in-hand weaknesses. Perhaps he will run into better form as the season goes on.

[Culprit]

Gault slipped over or went to ground nearly every time he went to the ball. Needs to get this out of his game.

He looked like he had runners on not the correct footwear. It was slippery and he could not get traction. He looked slow and clumsy and I would suggest he is not a wet tracker.

[watt price tully]

It's probably too late for Tooves to eradicate the clanger from his repertoire but equally his pass to Elliott in the goal square was beautiful.

Yes, but to be fair, he was aiming for Grundy on the southern wing.

When Tooves & Ramsay kick clangers they do stand out. But as you noted both of them can kick the ball well at times. Toovey has been diabolical this year at times & Ramsay needs to cool it a bit with his temper / reactivity as his instinctive play is terrific. Unfortunately neither Toovey or Ramsay are great kicks & we can't afford to have too many like that in the team.

Enter: Oxley, Von Scharenberg & if I believe the papers Aish: not necessarily to replace the said players but to augment the team's kicking skills.

Memo to Hine: now do a Hawthorn: we want deadly accurate kicks & as an extra but required player a combination of Leon Davis & Andrew Krakoeur as a forward line crumbing specialist.

[yin-YANG]