Post match: Pies down again - All comments please.

[Piesnchess]

Pretty damn hard too win a game, with our two best forwards not playing, or one got injured early. I actually think the Weagles can make the GF, and hopefully they will beat the red hot piss and poop, west coast are a very good team now.

[Piesnchess]

Can't do nothing with this team...

If you wanna see this years Premiership contender watch the SYD v HAW game.

That's how you win games & flags not the pretenders we have running around the park at the moment.

Are you for real?

Yes I agree that Hawthorn are the team to beat this year and are rightfully favourites to defend their premiership but to say we "can't do nothing with this team..." is absolute rubbish. We won't be contending for a premiership this year but who in their right mind seriously thought we would be contending with the heavyweights like the Hawks for example this year. There's a lot that can still be achieved this year in terms of the club striving for personal goals, the kids continuing to develop and blossom in the AFL system and hopefully with a bit of luck we can make some serious in-roads in the next few years but nothing is guaranteed in this competition however.

We're a young side in a development phase and compared to where we were twelve months ago I actually believe we're heading in the right direction and this is coming from someone who has criticised Bucks a few times and questioned whether the path we're heading towards will lead us to the ultimate success or not. I'm cautiously optimistic that our future is bright and we will see success in the near future especially after what I've seen overall this year but it's a work in progress and setbacks will occur along the way.

May I suggest that rather ridiculing the team at every turn and comparing them with a heavyweight like the Hawks who are at the top (but won't last of course) that you just enjoy the journey and progress that the club is currently overseeing. Being negative and unrealistic all the time makes your posts monotonous to read.

Spot on mate,we are two years away from a flag at present, our kids are not ready too challenge the big boys just yet, its all in the future. Some so called fans have no patience or common sense at all.

[thompsoc]

There is an old joke about hydrogen as a fuel for the future!
It goes something like this:
Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and it still will be
in 20 years time!
In other words saying we will win a flag in 2 years time
is not useful at all.
How long is a piece of string?

[thompsoc]

We were a young side in 2010 and we are
a young side in 2015.
What happened!

[jackcass]

We were a young side in 2010 and we are
a young side in 2015.
What happened!

You keep hanging on to that misnomer that we were a young side then. Yes, we had the youngest GF side but that totally discounts the fact we were actually an old squad hence the retirements of many ageing warriors like Presti, Lockyer, O'Bree etc etc.

[jackcass]

Can't do nothing with this team...

If you wanna see this years Premiership contender watch the SYD v HAW game.

That's how you win games & flags not the pretenders we have running around the park at the moment.

Are you for real?

Yes I agree that Hawthorn are the team to beat this year and are rightfully favourites to defend their premiership but to say we "can't do nothing with this team..." is absolute rubbish. We won't be contending for a premiership this year but who in their right mind seriously thought we would be contending with the heavyweights like the Hawks for example this year. There's a lot that can still be achieved this year in terms of the club striving for personal goals, the kids continuing to develop and blossom in the AFL system and hopefully with a bit of luck we can make some serious in-roads in the next few years but nothing is guaranteed in this competition however.

We're a young side in a development phase and compared to where we were twelve months ago I actually believe we're heading in the right direction and this is coming from someone who has criticised Bucks a few times and questioned whether the path we're heading towards will lead us to the ultimate success or not. I'm cautiously optimistic that our future is bright and we will see success in the near future especially after what I've seen overall this year but it's a work in progress and setbacks will occur along the way.

May I suggest that rather ridiculing the team at every turn and comparing them with a heavyweight like the Hawks who are at the top (but won't last of course) that you just enjoy the journey and progress that the club is currently overseeing. Being negative and unrealistic all the time makes your posts monotonous to read.

Spot on mate,we are two years away from a flag at present, our kids are not ready too challenge the big boys just yet, its all in the future. Some so called fans have no patience or common sense at all.

Interesting to note the advancement in the Weagles this year is that many of their kids are hitting that 23 years old 50-100+ games domain that is seen as the critical point in player development. Only had 4 players < 50 games (we had 10) and 4 more in the 50-100 range (we had 4).

[MightyMagpie]

<50 10 vs 4
50-99 3 vs 4
100-149 5 vs 10
>=150 4 vs 4

[Pies4shaw]

Just looked it up - pick 76.

Yes I do know strangely enough what pick he was.
But go back to the 2010 draft and you will see 13 players
taken that year in the national and rookie draft.
Not one has got anywhere. Except maybe Blair, but hey everybody knows
my opinion of that dud.
But remember Hine is a master of the rookie and national draft.

You've actually got nothing to contribute, have you?

[thompsoc]

Must have got under your skin Pies4shaw.
I love an argument which goes straight to personal abuse.
It is really constructive.

[Pies4shaw]

Personal abuse? Hardly - it was just a statement of incontrovertible fact.

I've been debating your prejudices about Collingwood's draft selections with you for about twelve months but this vapid response made it completely obvious that you have no interest in considering a rational view of Collingwood's recruiting.

Getting 48 games out of pick 76 in the draft is not a fail. Nor - despite your miserable lack of support for him - is getting 112 out of Jarryd Blair. Or, for that matter, getting 62 out of Fasolo, or 40 out of Keeffe, all of whom were added to the senior list in 2010.

[thompsoc]

I've been debating your prejudices about Collingwood's draft selections with you for about twelve months but this vapid response made it completely obvious that you have no interest in considering a rational view of Collingwood's recruiting.

My opinions are prejudice but yours miraculously is the truth.
Wow!
Now lets get back to the players mentioned - none are considered very good and all are considered average to ordinary players. Afterall, Jason Wild the Collingwood wonder from the 1990's managed 70 games. The world is full of average to ordinary players. Bagging them in the draft is easy. It is getting the top players is all that matters. And none that you mentioned are anywhere near that!
I will sum up at the end of the year my judgement of Hine given another season has gone by since my last comments.
Looking forward to your negative comments on me in that post.

[Pies4shaw]

The problem with your "judgement of Hine" is that you don't confine your comments to one assessment per year - rather, you seem to find evidence of his failures in every poor game played every week by every player he ever recruited. The absence of any fair statistical or reasoned basis for these views is what leads me to describe them as "prejudices".

A fair analysis of a recruiting decision needs to take into account at least the following factors:

(1) what other alternative players were available to be taken at the same selection; and

(2) reasonable expectations about how many AFL games one can expect from a recruit taken with a particular draft pick.

As you know, I commented on Seedsman in response to this post:

Seedsman, 5 years on the list.
Another gem by Hine.

Seedsman was taken at pick 76. Apart from draft selections used for rookie promotions and the like, all of the draftees taken after Seedsman in the 2010 draft put together have played less games than he has played on his own.

Next, looking at the history of the draft from 1995 to 2014, apart from rookie promotions and F/S selections, of draft picks 76 only Steven Pitt, Rupert Betheras, Jared Poulton, Andrew Raines (who, so far as I can ascertain, wasn't taken as a F/S selection at that pick) and Jason Blake (who was delisted after playing nearly 200 games and then redrafted at this pick and played for one more season) seem to have played senior AFL football. None of those was a "top player", so it is quite ridiculous to expect Collingwood to get a "top player" with pick 76.

Thus, on the first question, there was no better player available in the 2010 draft at pick 76. And, on the second question, the reasonable expectation is that pick 76 would not produce a player who played a single AFL game, so picking one who has played 48 is a much better than expected outcome.

I will save the inherent irony in this post:

Make Marley Williams the next captain.

for another occasion, bearing in mind that he was taken at pick 35 in the 2011 rookie draft (or, if you prefer, he was the 126th player taken that year).

[John Wren]

irrational supporters don't do facts. they want arguments of convenience. i guess if it weren't for the inane, ill informed, repetitive assertions from them we'd would not be beneficiaries of the enlightening information you provide.