Post match: Pies down to Dees. All comments please.

[Pies4shaw]

[John Wren]

Many players do well against their old teams - I think Jesse White should have been given one more week, just because it was Melbourne.

incorrect. recruited from sydney. i would have played white because it was melbourne and an opportunity to regain some confidence and form.

[woftam]

Many players do well against their old teams - I think Jesse White should have been given one more week, just because it was Melbourne.

incorrect. recruited from sydney. i would have played white because it was melbourne and an opportunity to regain some confidence and form.

Yeah me too. Not to mention we were already without Cloke & had obviously decided we were going to play Elliott as the sub.

[WarrenerraW]

Been a while since I've felt this deflated after a loss. Last week was pretty bad, but this... I seriously expected that we'd come out firing yesterday and win - to restore confidence and belief yet we serve up the same old dish consisting of ineffectual disposal, poor decision making, poor kicking for goal, poor marking, not being able to counter attack well and getting killed on the counter ourselves.

Last week we appeared tired and a few steps behind the pace and I guess yesterday was no different. Aren't we supposed to have the best facilities and resources in the league to be able to give our players that extra competitive edge? I guess none of that matters if your confidence is shot to bits, and that's how we look at the moment - like a team with no mental will and strength. I guess the month of close losses took it's toll on everyone and what we're seeing now are the after effects of it.

I accept that we're a young developing side but what I don't except is the constant poor decision making and an inability to hit up targets and the scoreboard as well as running teams into the ground like they do to us.

We insist on slow ineffectual movement of the ball and when we're pressured, even at the slightest, we cough it up by turning it over to the opposition directly or kick it on the full.

Then there's handballing to guys who are standing still and surrounded by opposition players without looking for a more better option up forward.

The loss of a few key players is really telling at the moment, particularly Cloke. I was for the omission of White but to replace him with a kid and having Faz as our key forward probably wasn't the wisest decision - unless they were banking on Moore kicking another 5 goal haul.

I think tactically we're being slaughtered and even the lesser teams have figured us out on game day. Apply constant pressure to backs and mids and exploit their lack of speed with quick movement of the ball. When we get caught on the counter there's rarely anyone there to stop it.

I accept that this is a development year but what I don't accept is the rubbish disposal and inability to perform the basic skills of football. There is simply no excuse for it. Not when you're supposedly professional players on big money - that's what you're paid to do. How many times have we seen a high up and under kick to someone with 2 or 3 players on them?

[Boot]

Going into this game I was a bit concerned since on paper Melbourne's team didn't look that bad, however as a Melbourne supporter friend of mine pointed out the game is not played on paper! Yet so it started with Melbourne getting off to a good start, as did StKilda, Geelong, Melbourne ( on Queens Birthday), and Nth Melbourne yet we were able to get back into those games and win all except the Geelong game. Somehow our intensity at the start of games is missing.

With this loss comes the sad reality that we are not going to "pinch" a flag this year. So the painful acceptance of reality and planning for the next year starts again.

From yesterday's game a couple of things we learnt;
1. Paul Seedsman needs to go back to the VFL and get whatever is wrong with him right. I don't know if it is mental or physical but since the Essendon game he has not been up to it.

2. Sammy Dwyer - does not have the tank to go for 2md or 3rd efforts. Can do some smart things but not consistent enough. Depth player only and I would rather see Blair in the team.

3. Darcy Moore will be a champion, but he is a sapling at the moment and if we have him as our ne Key Forward we will loose and risk killing his development by being pitted against the best backs in the game who are too big and strong for Darcy to cope with now. Hence the mistake of dropping White for yesterday's game. White has a lot of deficiencies in his game but he has a mature body that can usually contest and does have surprising pace that can worry backmen. Until Cloke is back we need to play Jessie White to protect Moore. Ideally Moore should be the 3rd Tall in our forward line not the 1st.

4. We have a problem with Brown and Frost as our key backs. Both have suspect disposal so whilst their defensive work can be up to AFL standard, they don't give enough drive from the half back line. I think we need more class at CHB and the obvious answer is Ben Reid. If Reid remains so fragile in body that he can't get into the team then I feel for the rest of the season we should play Jono Marsh at CHB. He has the size and dynamic athletic ability to provide the drive we need. His disposal is no great but I don't think it could be worse than Brown and Frost at the moment.

5. A major reason why Richmond is doing well is because they have a ruckman in Ivan Maric who is taking contested marks all over the ground. I am still a great believer in playing Witts and Grundy in the same team but they have to continue to work at taking contested marks. Also Witts has to be told it is OK to kick the ball down the line rather than be forced to handball after taking possession. I know the theory is that better skilled players will do more with the ball but it is putting us under un-necessary pressure by being too predictable.

6. We finally get to see what all the Hype about Matt Scharenberg is. I thought he showed calmness under pressure and his decision making was OK. I don't see him as a key position player, but more of a flanker. He doesn't have great pace ( Toovey's prime weapon) and is not yet as hard as Williams and Toovey, however now he is iin the team I would continue to play him for the rest of this year to get him into the groove of AFL tempo and hopefully set him up for a great 2016 when he will have to earn his position against the likes of Toovey, Oxley and Maynard. Either that or he gets traded back home to Adelaide to enable the Treloar trade to happen.

7. We need to get some more "kamikaze" play into our center / onballers & forward of center players. It appears to me that our players are trying to be too clinical when going forward which is not working since they are taking too long to identify the next target up forward which gives the opposition time to flood back into our 50 meter arc and smother our attacking moves and at the moment we are lacking the disposal efficiency to hit the targets ahead of them when they identify them anyway. Some of our best football this year has been when our players throw caution to the wind and blast the ball forward at speed and distance. Now this has to be tempered with being able to lower the eyes when in space to hit up loose options rather than simply bombing to two or three opposition players on one forward, but the number of times against Melbourne we seemed to dick about with the ball in the center of the ground by taking it back into congestion and 50/50 contests when a better option would have been to blast it forward was maddening. To get sufficient balance between overly cautious and bombing to outnumbered forwards is a challenge but I see that as the key to our success in the next couple of years. Good footballers will be able to get that balance right especially if we have skillful dominant forwards available to take advantage of quick forward entries. e.g. Elliot, Fasolo, Cloke and Moore.

Hence the team I would like to see played next week against Carlton is;
Frost, Brown, Williams
Scharenberg, Marsh,Langdon
Varcoe, Adams, Sidebottom
Degoey, White, Swan
Fasolo, Moore, Elliot
Grundy, Crisp , Pendlebury (if fit)
Witts, Greenwood, Blair, Toovey (Sub)

Out: Seedsman, Dwyer, Maynard
In: White, Marsh (Assuming Reid is not yet ready), Blair

It is still very important to beat Carlton else the whole year really stinks!!

[Piethagoras' Theorem]

We're cooked after a massive month of footy, I'm not surprised, really. I don't give a stuff about finals, just keep pumping games into the youngsters. KPP's are a worry, not much we can do it about it now but I'll spew if we pick up a Treloar over a tall with sticky hands!

[Tezza23]

That was easily the worst game that Collingwood had played for some time, maybe even decades. Given that Melb had only won 5 games with a sub 80% and that we were trying to keep our finals chances alive in almost perfect football conditions (except that it was cold). Collinwood had one shot on goal in the last quarter - from the boundary line outside the forward 50. Melbourne had 11, most of which were set shots. This is the most damning stat of all.

While I acknowledge that the players may be tired and mentally exhausted, the same issues were there for all to see even when the side was 8-3.

Brown refuses to kick to a team mate once he crosses the 50m arc. He merely kicks as long as he can usually to the teams disadvantage.

Frost refuses to move the ball forward, instead handballs or kicks backwards or sideways almost invariably to some one in no better position.

Our fumbling and kicking are so below a top four side its depressing. We should be known as Buckleys Butchers.

Our bombing into the forward 50 is so predictable and just plain dumb. Any Auskick coach will tell you to do the team thing and look for a teammate.

Can someone tell me why Elliot was the sub - If he is fit play him, if not let him recover. Surely even if he was not 100% fit it would be better to start him and see how he was going and sub him later if tired.

Don't even get me started as to why Marley was bombing the kick ins to Witts and Grundy in the last quarter - hoping for a contested mark.

[PeterWH]

For what its worth....I havent been on this forum for some time and I can now see why.
I have followed the PIES since 1964.I have seen them on top of the world,I have seen them down holding the rest of the teams up,BUT have I ieft them and critisized the players and the coach that way some of you do.....NO.I just shrug my shoulders and say its a game of footy.
So maybe the coach is doing the wrong thing.
As I said to another fellow caravaner in Blackall this morning,all the other teams know exactly what Bucks is going to do and they know the moves before they get onto the field.The same thing happened when MM was coach,everyone knew what the play was before they got onto the field.
Its time that Bucks change the game structure to at least keep the other teams guessing as to what is going to happen.
Also remember that at present there are about 10 players on the sidelines due to injury and also that the Pies are bringing up some junior players and giving them a go onto the field.
I think that some of you should go back thru the years and see how the PIES got on when they were way down the bottom of the ladder and how they picked themselves up and got going again.
Sacking Bucks wont solve the problem,its time that Cloke retired and also some of the other players retired as well.Also those that are on the injury list should be given a chance top come back.
Yes I am a s pationate as the next supporter,BUT hell just because the guys have lost 6 in a row aint the end of the world,go back when the boys wont 6 in a row and then lost the next 14 due to injury.....
Its time that some of you just remembered on thing,its a game of footy,there is always next week and just remember that there are many players away due to injury.
That is my 50cents worth.....
See you in 12 months time

[Mossi]

We're cooked after a massive month of footy, I'm not surprised, really. I don't give a stuff about finals, just keep pumping games into the youngsters. KPP's are a worry, not much we can do it about it now but I'll spew if we pick up a Treloar over a tall with sticky hands!

Spot on Frankiboy! KPP's are a worry Without Cloke up there and Moore on his own we've go non one that can clonk a mark! Jordie, Crisp are cooked All understandable. Hope we have something left to beat the blues!

[Piethagoras' Theorem]

^ I'll be happy if it's the only game we win for the rest of the year

last game wouldn't hurt either

[Piesnchess]

Bitterly disapponted, angry and pissed off, it was very poor, thank god i wasnt there. Yes, we are a developing young team, but im damned if we know what hell happened to that great pressure, and hard tackling we showed against the dockers and dawks, and pushed Port to the end. ?? My theory is that those close and gut wrenching losses, especially the one too the piss an poop, has knocked the confidence right outa this team, the kids have been gutted by those close calls, and our confidence is shattered, it was obvious against the dogs we were down of confidence in spades. Cloke is a massive loss, and young darcy cannot handle forward on his own, he needs help, and for the love of god, when oh when will they play Reid, just play him for chrissakes. !!
For me, the only positives out of that miserable game was the form of young Schrenberg, the kid looks very promising. I guess the only other positve is we have not been belted in any of our losses this year, unlike the dons, who were smashed again today. Im not even thinking Finals now, just get more games into our kids, more gametime, and play Reid, and try to rack up a few wins and finish the best we can.

[Piesnchess]

37k for Melbourne/Collingwood? If that's not a rocket up the arse of these dicks at AFL house then I don't know what else would be.

Yeh, i got an email from the club, saying if i came along, i could get in for free, as the two games i have left on my membershiip, would not be counted, id still have two games left. Luckily i was in Mansfield, but the point is, they are asking us to attend for FREE, so what the hell is going on

[Robbie]

I am an interstate member and I realise I have no idea who our Ruck Coach is or if we have one. Witts certainly seems to try his guts out considering this wasn't the game he played growing up, and yet his tap skills are still not giving us the advantage we need. When it comes to Brodie I am totally confused because when he sets himself to mark he often takes it and yet a minute later he will be pushed off the ball by a much smaller and lighter player, and he gives the impression of losing concentration.

They are both young and should be great once they have the experience as well as the tank to keep going all day. They need more help and by this I would suggest a close investigation of the Ruck Coach and I just pray it isn't a task of the Centres Coach because that has never worked. Maybe getting a specialist Ruckman and have the other two guys fight for a forward/resting ruckmen role until they have enough knowledge.

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

Bitterly disapponted, angry and pissed off, it was very poor, thank god i wasnt there. Yes, we are a developing young team, but im damned if we know what hell happened to that great pressure, and hard tackling we showed against the dockers and dawks, and pushed Port to the end. ?? My theory is that those close and gut wrenching losses, especially the one too the piss an poop, has knocked the confidence right outa this team, the kids have been gutted by those close calls, and our confidence is shattered, it was obvious against the dogs we were down of confidence in spades. Cloke is a massive loss, and young darcy cannot handle forward on his own, he needs help, and for the love of god, when oh when will they play Reid, just play him for chrissakes. !!
For me, the only positives out of that miserable game was the form of young Schrenberg, the kid looks very promising. I guess the only other positve is we have not been belted in any of our losses this year, unlike the dons, who were smashed again today. Im not even thinking Finals now, just get more games into our kids, more gametime, and play Reid, and try to rack up a few wins and finish the best we can.

That's a fair call for someone who wasn't there. Melbourne were poor. We were just poorer. We were undersized against a bigger opponent who tackled ferociously and overwhelmed us. We were missing Cloke and when you have so many young recruits playing in your team, there is only so much seasoned hands like Swan, Pendles, Varcoe and Sidebottom can do. Easily our worst game for the season.

[ANNODAM]

37k for Melbourne/Collingwood? If that's not a rocket up the arse of these dicks at AFL house then I don't know what else would be.

Yeh, i got an email from the club, saying if i came along, i could get in for free, as the two games i have left on my membershiip, would not be counted, id still have two games left. Luckily i was in Mansfield, but the point is, they are asking us to attend for FREE, so what the hell is going on

I'll tell you what's going on, people are pissed off at the AFL & their greed & are voting with their feet.

Best.news.ever!