Terror attacks by Islamist groups

[pietillidie]

I see the most violent and careless thread in Nick's history is still going strongly. I don't get the blind eye being turned here for what is outright aggressive religious targeting. Shame on you all for not having the decency to protect innocent bystanders from this.

[David]

It bothers me greatly, PTID, particularly given that it's my sarcastic thread title that people will see first when they visit the forum. Perhaps not one of my better decisions as a mod.

[Mugwump]

I think this thread is an interesting documentary record of the rise of Islamist violence, one of the greatest threats to peace in our time. I think someone with a brain can hold in their head the fact that this war of murder, rape, enslavement and pillage against ordinary people is going on across the world, while recognising that Mr and Mrs Ali in the next suburb are not involved. A few loonies may not, but that is what laws are for, and these should be enforced with real severity.

As for this thread being "violent", well, Pravda rules, I suppose. Violence is the stuff Skids shows in his posts. It is not having violence documented. I suspect that only those who can be unafraid of going to the market are able to distort the concept of violence in that way.

[David]

But I think this overlooks the sinister purposes of this tracker and the way it's presented ("our Muslim friends", "the religion of peace", etc.).

I posted this much earlier on in the thread, and I think it still holds true.

The main problem with this tracker is not with its accuracy, which I'm guessing checks out. What it shows is how a selective presentation of facts can be used to create a skewed perception of reality.

The fact is, you could theoretically make a list of any kind: violent acts committed by Christians; or Africans; or Australians (or any group that could potentially have a negative stereotype attached and subsequently 'confirmed'). How few or how many is totally relative. And when you think about it that way, you see how creepy and anti-intellectual this exercise (and its gleeful reposting on this board) is.

What this data shows is quantity, not proportion. And that taps into a common fallacy that is already really widespread on this topic: that every single time one hears about a violent Muslim act, it confirms that violence is an inherent component of Islam. This is despite the fact that a terrorist attack in Nigeria, cultural conflict in Myanmar or drive-by shooting in Bosnia may have nothing in common with each other apart from the general religion of the perpetrators. Despite the fact that most Muslims in these places don't have anything to do with crimes like these. Despite the fact that many of the victims are themselves Muslim.

Skids' list doesn't have a thing to say about the majority of peaceful, mainstream Muslims living mundane, ordinary lives. And that allows this website, with its sarcastic name, to prosecute its sole agenda: to convince people that the entire religion of Islam is violent, dangerous and incompatible with Western values. That's not in any way a new or challenging idea; it's been around at least since the September 11 attacks, and as long as people keep confusing quantity with proportion, it's not going anywhere.

[Mugwump]

As I read it, these are acts of terrorism by Islamist groups, not Muslims. There are no doubt hundreds of murders committed every day for non-political reasons by Muslims and Christians. If you can show me bombings committed by Christians, or Buddhists, or Hindus on anything like this scale where religion is the avowed prime cause and justification in the minds of the perpetrators, then I shall see your point.

Religion may or may not be a bad thing. Islam may be a relatively good or bad religion. The point is that Islam is being used as the vector of indiscriminate violence on a vast scale, and the people who are doing so want to target us. If you do not think that's worth following, I cannot understand why not. It may be uncomfortable for Mr and Mrs Ali, amd we should take steps to protect and embrace them. They too should take steps to root out this menace in their community, as many do. But that does not mean censoring what is happening.

[Morrigu]

It bothers me greatly, PTID, particularly given that it's my sarcastic thread title that people will see first when they visit the forum. Perhaps not one of my better decisions as a mod.

Oh FFS get over yourselves

Bad things are currently being done by people who call themselves Muslims in fairly substantial numbers around the world - fact!!

If it bothers you so then start a thread about bad things done by Christians, Buddhists, Jews or Pastafaraians.

[think positive]

I'm not trying to accuse you specifically of anything, but I can only call it as I see it, and the way I see it is that there is very little pushback against extreme (and factually incorrect) anti-Islamic rhetoric - on this forum, at least. That looks at best like group tolerance and at worst like silent agreement, and the occasional positive comment about Muslims doesn't fundamentally change that. Basically, if there's no argument against it, then those ideas go unchallenged. I don't think that's a good thing at all.

Yeah you actually are

You are using my posts to generalise or as an example, and I am not islamicphobic, and I resent your accusations. You don't get to say how strongly I opose something. I don't need to wear a t shirt declaring my love for Muslims in order to please you. I treat my Muslim friends the same way I treat everyone else, with dignity and respect, their choice of religion is none of my business.

Really you should rename the thread, bad things done by people using religion as an excuse. And this one is about using Islam as that excuse, the name of Allah, or whatever.

[think positive]

It bothers me greatly, PTID, particularly given that it's my sarcastic thread title that people will see first when they visit the forum. Perhaps not one of my better decisions as a mod.

Oh FFS get over yourselves

Bad things are currently being done by people who call themselves Muslims in fairly substantial numbers around the world - fact!!

If it bothers you so then start a thread about bad things done by Christians, Buddhists, Jews or Pastafaraians.

Yup, spot on

[David]

As I read it, these are acts of terrorism by Islamist groups, not Muslims. There are no doubt hundreds of murders committed every day for non-political reasons by Muslims and Christians. If you can show me bombings committed by Christians, or Buddhists, or Hindus on anything like this scale where religion is the avowed prime cause and justification in the minds of the perpetrators, then I shall see your point.

Religion may or may not be a bad thing. Islam may be a relatively good or bad religion. The point is that Islam is being used as the vector of indiscriminate violence on a vast scale, and the people who are doing so want to target us. If you do not think that's worth following, I cannot understand why not. It may be uncomfortable for Mr and Mrs Ali, amd we should take steps to protect and embrace them. They too should take steps to root out this menace in their community, as many do. But that does not mean censoring what is happening.

Who's "us"? A cursory scroll through Skids' posts will show that the majority of victims are Muslims in Muslim majority countries. It's only one word in your post, but it's an interesting choice. The nature of the majority of the attacks suggests to me that these more fit the profile of local political conflicts than religious struggle per se - more Baader-Meinhof than crusades, you could say.

That doesn't necessarily mean that we can just put them to the side of Islam; of course these things are inevitably tangled up. As for Christian religious conflict, it exists more or less wherever Christianity exists in the developing world (mostly, Africa). To use Stui's favoured phrase, that's where you need to look if you want to compare apples with apples, not developed Western countries. Violence is, needless to say, often a function of poverty and social destabilisation.

[Mugwump]

"Us" is us, of course. It is human nature, and quite legitimate to be concerned with people who might want to kill you, and it explains the popularity and interest generated by this thread.

[laird]

It bothers me greatly, PTID, particularly given that it's my sarcastic thread title that people will see first when they visit the forum. Perhaps not one of my better decisions as a mod.

Oh FFS get over yourselves

Bad things are currently being done by people who call themselves Muslims in fairly substantial numbers around the world - fact!!

If it bothers you so then start a thread about bad things done by Christians, Buddhists, Jews or Pastafaraians.

And include Athiests.

[Morrigu]

I'm not trying to accuse you specifically of anything, but I can only call it as I see it, and the way I see it is that there is very little pushback against extreme (and factually incorrect) anti-Islamic rhetoric - on this forum, at least. That looks at best like group tolerance and at worst like silent agreement, and the occasional positive comment about Muslims doesn't fundamentally change that. Basically, if there's no argument against it, then those ideas go unchallenged. I don't think that's a good thing at all.

Yeah you actually are

You are using my posts to generalise or as an example, and I am not islamicphobic, and I resent your accusations. You don't get to say how strongly I opose something. I don't need to wear a t shirt declaring my love for Muslims in order to please you. I treat my Muslim friends the same way I treat everyone else, with dignity and respect, their choice of religion is none of my business.

So according to the ruling elite Jo all Muslims are not expected to publicly and strongly oppose acts of barbarity committed by thugs in the name of their religion but all of us including you are expected to strongly express your love and acceptance at all times of Muslims regardless .... talk about "tiring"

[Morrigu]

It bothers me greatly, PTID, particularly given that it's my sarcastic thread title that people will see first when they visit the forum. Perhaps not one of my better decisions as a mod.

Oh FFS get over yourselves

Bad things are currently being done by people who call themselves Muslims in fairly substantial numbers around the world - fact!!

If it bothers you so then start a thread about bad things done by Christians, Buddhists, Jews or Pastafaraians.

And include Athiests.

Correct!!!!

[think positive]

I'm not trying to accuse you specifically of anything, but I can only call it as I see it, and the way I see it is that there is very little pushback against extreme (and factually incorrect) anti-Islamic rhetoric - on this forum, at least. That looks at best like group tolerance and at worst like silent agreement, and the occasional positive comment about Muslims doesn't fundamentally change that. Basically, if there's no argument against it, then those ideas go unchallenged. I don't think that's a good thing at all.

Yeah you actually are

You are using my posts to generalise or as an example, and I am not islamicphobic, and I resent your accusations. You don't get to say how strongly I opose something. I don't need to wear a t shirt declaring my love for Muslims in order to please you. I treat my Muslim friends the same way I treat everyone else, with dignity and respect, their choice of religion is none of my business.

So according to the ruling elite Jo all Muslims are not expected to publicly and strongly oppose acts of barbarity committed by thugs in the name of their religion but all of us including you are expected to strongly express your love and acceptance at all times of Muslims regardless .... talk about "tiring"

That's the way I read it!

[pietillidie]

I think this thread is an interesting documentary record of the rise of Islamist violence, one of the greatest threats to peace in our time. I think someone with a brain can hold in their head the fact that this war of murder, rape, enslavement and pillage against ordinary people is going on across the world, while recognising that Mr and Mrs Ali in the next suburb are not involved. A few loonies may not, but that is what laws are for, and these should be enforced with real severity.

As for this thread being "violent", well, Pravda rules, I suppose. Violence is the stuff Skids shows in his posts. It is not having violence documented. I suspect that only those who can be unafraid of going to the market are able to distort the concept of violence in that way.

No, it's a targeted, selective, unchecked and misleadingly-titled record. That's a violence in *your* culture which you assiduously adhere to for all other groups. The making of the exception and the special pleading is the very act of aggression here. We've seen this repeatedly in history and this is no different no matter how much lipstick you paint this pig with.