Agree with many others. Disinterested players.
None run towards the player with the ball to be a target. Farcical when reid and goldsack handball to each other because neither can find a target to kick to.
Can any of our big men take a mark. Grundy no, Goldsack no, Reid drops an uncontested in the forward line late in the game.
Blair is useless.
Cloke played ok until the last quarter when forty out directly in front he misses everything.
Frustrating that no forward stays in the forward line to lead to the kicker. So many times we kick to the guy running back into the forward line for a difficult mark.
I guess I can blame Buckley but I blame a lot of players first. And the forwards coach and the kicking coach.
Post match. Pies trounced by Saints. All comments please
Moderator: bbmods
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daics aka the ruckman
- Posts: 391
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We give away easy goals in 3 ways:
Too many numbers at the footy, we dont win the contest and the opposition spreads and kills us.
Our strategy to defend opposition kick ins doesnt exist and so we leak goals there too.
When we have the footy in our defensive end, we gamble 100%. There is no one protecting the footy coming back the other way as they've ALL committed to running forward of the ball.
Ultimately, its buckleys game plan as head coach, therefore he is to blame... Not the players. They are merely following poor instructions.
Too many numbers at the footy, we dont win the contest and the opposition spreads and kills us.
Our strategy to defend opposition kick ins doesnt exist and so we leak goals there too.
When we have the footy in our defensive end, we gamble 100%. There is no one protecting the footy coming back the other way as they've ALL committed to running forward of the ball.
Ultimately, its buckleys game plan as head coach, therefore he is to blame... Not the players. They are merely following poor instructions.
Beware the swooping Magpie.
What a woeful start to this season. There is no doubt that the team is not travelling at all well and I'll be taking a close look at the VFP on TV today to check for any talent that can replace non-performers.
I always like to look at the positives from a game and yesterday there were a only a few bits of positives and even they had negatives associated with them.
Langdon - Did much better, but was playing on the wing so I feel his man may have been damaging for the Saints. With Marley hurt and Ramsay gone he needs to go back to the backline and defend like he means it. He could be our general of the Backline.
Aish - Has class and can play. Should be a winger for the next few years.
Reid - Still our best defender. Looks a shadow of himself when playing forward. Still needs to work on his touch but at least has some ootential to improve.
Oxley - terrific mark for his size and can kick well but takes too long to move the ball so maybe his lack of experience is holding him back.
Looking forward to Sidebottom and Varcoe return next week.
Greenwood - tough but doesn't do enough with the ball
Lots of negatives;
Grundy - Thrashed in the ruck. Gets around the ground OK but not taking enough marks. I think he can develop to be a force but not on hi s own at this point in hsi career. I still believe we need to play Witts and Grundy in the same team to get the best out of both.
Treloar - fantastic in the first two weeks but was hardly sighted when it matted yesterday. Was he too hurt?
Pendlebury - If he is hurt then rest him to get him back to being the best in the game midfielder.
Defensive Strategy - Zoning got cut up by StKilda! What would a good team do to it? I would be happier to see a man on man defensive core and have Pendles as the seventh man back there but that assumes he is fit and the other on-ballers are doing there role. Maybe a Toovey as a lock down defender is necessary. Toovey for Sinclair maybe to allow Sinclair to move into the middle for some much needed pace there? We do appear a one paced mid field unless Trelaor can do better.
Brown - Really worried about Brownie. He just seems to be struggling and his disposal ability is terrible. He needs to get his handball to a better player every time because his kicking is just not up to AFL standard. Frost has more athleticism but also lacks the disposal skills. If Brown has no key opponent then he can't play on smaller, smarter fowards.
Goldsack - Terrible day at the office. Hopefully will be better for the run.
Adams - No pace. We know this and he makes up for that in other ways. Tony Shaw had the same issues. Must run harder to be the link between defence and attack and if he is to become the player we all hope he needs to get his disposal efficiency up.
Moore - Looks a Million Dollars but is no defender. Needs to work harder at getting the ball by leading and still be able ot contest in packs. Has great potential but must work harder. I would rather see him in the ruck than Cloke but would prefer to see Witts and Grundy cope with the buffering in the ruck.
Cloke - I thought he tried hard and if he can roam between the 40 meter from goal and wing to be our target coming out of defence then he should still be a good CHF. Not a ruckman. He is never going to be a reliabel kick for goal so if he gets a few each week that is a bonus. The way he was decisive and accurate for his 2nd Quarter goal from 50 meters was ideal. The way he missed in the last quarter was typical. Fatigue must have something to do with it, but having the mental strength to overcome that fatigue and concentrate on getting his action right with set shots is what he appears to lack.
Sinclair - Can play but seems the defensive strategy is stuffing him up.
Degoey - Needs to make every disposal a winner. He missed two shots on goal that A-graders would have got yesterday. Like Greenwood, has the body to be a bash and crash type midfielder but mus work harder.
Fasolo - OK but is no Daicos. I wonder if the forward lines struggle with too many Faz, Howe, Elliot types. Maybe only one can play on the forward line at a time.
Howe - First game back after a limited pre season. Not enough output but lets persist.
Never give up, never surrender and always hate Carlton!!
Go Pies!
I always like to look at the positives from a game and yesterday there were a only a few bits of positives and even they had negatives associated with them.
Langdon - Did much better, but was playing on the wing so I feel his man may have been damaging for the Saints. With Marley hurt and Ramsay gone he needs to go back to the backline and defend like he means it. He could be our general of the Backline.
Aish - Has class and can play. Should be a winger for the next few years.
Reid - Still our best defender. Looks a shadow of himself when playing forward. Still needs to work on his touch but at least has some ootential to improve.
Oxley - terrific mark for his size and can kick well but takes too long to move the ball so maybe his lack of experience is holding him back.
Looking forward to Sidebottom and Varcoe return next week.
Greenwood - tough but doesn't do enough with the ball
Lots of negatives;
Grundy - Thrashed in the ruck. Gets around the ground OK but not taking enough marks. I think he can develop to be a force but not on hi s own at this point in hsi career. I still believe we need to play Witts and Grundy in the same team to get the best out of both.
Treloar - fantastic in the first two weeks but was hardly sighted when it matted yesterday. Was he too hurt?
Pendlebury - If he is hurt then rest him to get him back to being the best in the game midfielder.
Defensive Strategy - Zoning got cut up by StKilda! What would a good team do to it? I would be happier to see a man on man defensive core and have Pendles as the seventh man back there but that assumes he is fit and the other on-ballers are doing there role. Maybe a Toovey as a lock down defender is necessary. Toovey for Sinclair maybe to allow Sinclair to move into the middle for some much needed pace there? We do appear a one paced mid field unless Trelaor can do better.
Brown - Really worried about Brownie. He just seems to be struggling and his disposal ability is terrible. He needs to get his handball to a better player every time because his kicking is just not up to AFL standard. Frost has more athleticism but also lacks the disposal skills. If Brown has no key opponent then he can't play on smaller, smarter fowards.
Goldsack - Terrible day at the office. Hopefully will be better for the run.
Adams - No pace. We know this and he makes up for that in other ways. Tony Shaw had the same issues. Must run harder to be the link between defence and attack and if he is to become the player we all hope he needs to get his disposal efficiency up.
Moore - Looks a Million Dollars but is no defender. Needs to work harder at getting the ball by leading and still be able ot contest in packs. Has great potential but must work harder. I would rather see him in the ruck than Cloke but would prefer to see Witts and Grundy cope with the buffering in the ruck.
Cloke - I thought he tried hard and if he can roam between the 40 meter from goal and wing to be our target coming out of defence then he should still be a good CHF. Not a ruckman. He is never going to be a reliabel kick for goal so if he gets a few each week that is a bonus. The way he was decisive and accurate for his 2nd Quarter goal from 50 meters was ideal. The way he missed in the last quarter was typical. Fatigue must have something to do with it, but having the mental strength to overcome that fatigue and concentrate on getting his action right with set shots is what he appears to lack.
Sinclair - Can play but seems the defensive strategy is stuffing him up.
Degoey - Needs to make every disposal a winner. He missed two shots on goal that A-graders would have got yesterday. Like Greenwood, has the body to be a bash and crash type midfielder but mus work harder.
Fasolo - OK but is no Daicos. I wonder if the forward lines struggle with too many Faz, Howe, Elliot types. Maybe only one can play on the forward line at a time.
Howe - First game back after a limited pre season. Not enough output but lets persist.
Never give up, never surrender and always hate Carlton!!
Go Pies!
Collingwood Domination. Envy of the Nation!
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jeanpierre
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:09 pm
- Location: Flemington
There is a reason that Robert Harvey couldn't get the Senior job at St Kilda. Buckley is the same, but at least together they've created a new system. I call it "headless chooks" - none of them seem to have a clue what's going on??
And if our saving is to bring back the "great" Jessie White, god help us. Recycled duds like he and Jeremy Howe are a absolute joke!
If we lose to the Dees, Bombers and then get mauled in Perth, surely there must be change....??
JP
And if our saving is to bring back the "great" Jessie White, god help us. Recycled duds like he and Jeremy Howe are a absolute joke!
If we lose to the Dees, Bombers and then get mauled in Perth, surely there must be change....??
JP
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Duff Soviet Union
- Posts: 1454
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:45 pm
- Been liked: 2 times
Football we allow the opposition to play: win the ball in the back half, switch to wide open man, hit wide open targets up until half forward, spot up man in forward 50, goal.
Football we play: win contested possession, scrap kick forward to nobody in particular, hope to win next possession, kick long to 3 on 3 inside 50, opposition win the ball, see "football we allow the opposition to play".
Football we play: win contested possession, scrap kick forward to nobody in particular, hope to win next possession, kick long to 3 on 3 inside 50, opposition win the ball, see "football we allow the opposition to play".
"We ain't gotta dream no more"
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Tezza23
- Posts: 185
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:12 pm
I find it amusing when some posters say that Buckley will put the club first and resign if things are going to plan. The reason why he was such a good footballer was his self-belief. This same self-belief will in his mind at least make him think that he will ALWAYS be the right coach. When you add in Eddie and Perts backing to his mindset means that he will have to be sacked as he will not step down from a contest. that is why so many coaches get sacked and so very few just walk away from the job.
Buckley is coaching in his fifth seasons and will clock up 100 games very soon. He has been using the same game plan for all of that time, its just that now supporters are beginning to see that its just doesn't work.
I'd be interested to know from any VFL watches if we set up the same outdated zone defence in the magoos.
Buckley is coaching in his fifth seasons and will clock up 100 games very soon. He has been using the same game plan for all of that time, its just that now supporters are beginning to see that its just doesn't work.
I'd be interested to know from any VFL watches if we set up the same outdated zone defence in the magoos.
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jackcass
- Posts: 12529
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:17 pm
- Location: Bendigo
Agree JW. With 4 of our best 10 sitting in the stands, another playing hurt, the introduction of 3 new senior players, a debutant, and a few really struggling with form, it certainly wasn't as bad as it could have been.John Wren wrote:we were ok in the first half but got blown away in the third and couldn't quite peg it back in the last. no doubt some will call me delusional but i didn't think we were out of the game until sinclair goaled. at times we are a very difficult team to watch - there's no escaping that - but you can see glimpses of what we can look like when we get the execution right. there might be a need to tinker with things but there is certainly no need to tear the place down. we're three games in and could well be 5-3 by round 8.Culprit wrote:Interesting game and for people that bagged Richo the coach, all I can say is time to eat humble pie. His nothing team just pulled our teams pants down and gave it to us with no lube. There is an issue at Collingwood FC and they best sort it out. This reminds me of the mid 80s. A lot can happen in a week, but geez bruise free footy at its best is worrying. A win next week evens it up but I would actually like to see the team perform to its potential.
Sleep on it, the sun will come up tomorrow and let's look to next week.
For those who bag the naysayers? What's your thoughts this week?
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jackcass
- Posts: 12529
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:17 pm
- Location: Bendigo
Players need to carry their share of responsibility. Bucks isn't the one making poor choices or executing skills poorly.burnsy17 wrote:We give away easy goals in 3 ways:
Too many numbers at the footy, we dont win the contest and the opposition spreads and kills us.
Our strategy to defend opposition kick ins doesnt exist and so we leak goals there too.
When we have the footy in our defensive end, we gamble 100%. There is no one protecting the footy coming back the other way as they've ALL committed to running forward of the ball.
Ultimately, its buckleys game plan as head coach, therefore he is to blame... Not the players. They are merely following poor instructions.
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qldmagpie67
- Posts: 6077
- Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:41 pm
- Been liked: 118 times
Now that I've had time to digest the game and a bottle and half of Jameson's things look a little clearer today (after a late sleep in and a good hearty breakfast followed by a apology to Mrs. Qldmagpie for the mess in the lounge room lol)
Now we've assembled a list we been told of talented youngsters and strong leaders in the senior players.
Now they either trained the talent out of the kids or the kids have now got there big ole pay check secured and are looking for the next offseason to spend there "hard" earned on some mor recreational drugs
There's a few glaring problems with this team
Firstly we have very few good kicks and no great kicks
Simple things like hitting a target from 30m is beyond 70% of this side it appears
Bucks was just about the best kick of his generation surely he can show a player how to kick it 30m straight
Secondly it's hard to look good when your team mates are standing still waiting for you to do something miraculous to get out of trouble. The amount of times we have to go backwards or side ways because no one is working hard off the ball is ridiculous.
Our tackling which was a strength is now shambolic we are lucky to stick 1 in 3 or 4. We allow to many soft tackle breaks. Also our manic pressure inside our attacking 50m is non existent as well. Goldy Blair Caff Elliott all provided this now we have who doing it ?
We are playing players out of positions they can't either play or haven't been coached to play. Pendles has been our midfield star for years our general in there directing and reading the game. He isn't a HBF butthole and nor should he be. Look he's obviously playing busted which is brave but he isn't the same player. As a skipper he isn't the scream rant rave type that Maxy was when needed.
It's easy to blame the coach (and he's not without fault by a long way) but all 3 games so far this year the players have appeared disinterested lazy & slow. A complete contrast to what we saw in the preseason.
Now a coach can only say so much or make so many changes but if the players keep looking to someone else to do the hard work like win the ball then your on a hiding to nothing
We aren't running hard enough
We aren't respecting our opposition
We aren't using the ball at AFL standard
Hard running, manning up and skills are all things the player can fix
Our structure is non existent whoever is in charge of the backline should be shown the door. The zone doesn't work for us simple. Play man on man football. Yes we've got a lot of inexperience down back but hell how hard is it for them to stay within a meter or 2 of there opponent ?
Maxy and to a lesser extent Heater had good game sense when to stay on there man and when to leave. Our back 6 excluding Reid who has been mainly good have no sense at all in any department
I hope they have one of those honesty sessions you hear other clubs have after performances like that. If they do there's a chance they can get the season back on track.
If they keep looking for excuses like
Oh they played really well
Oh were short handed because of injury
The bounce of the ball was against us
Then our chances for season 2016 and beyond are gone.
As for the coach he has some hard work and decisions to make. I would be calling Maxy and saying hey champ come down and work with this back line please
Bucks I say has until the bye and if we aren't at least 6-6 then the board have the remainder of the season to find his replacement for 2017 and beyond.
Now we've assembled a list we been told of talented youngsters and strong leaders in the senior players.
Now they either trained the talent out of the kids or the kids have now got there big ole pay check secured and are looking for the next offseason to spend there "hard" earned on some mor recreational drugs
There's a few glaring problems with this team
Firstly we have very few good kicks and no great kicks
Simple things like hitting a target from 30m is beyond 70% of this side it appears
Bucks was just about the best kick of his generation surely he can show a player how to kick it 30m straight
Secondly it's hard to look good when your team mates are standing still waiting for you to do something miraculous to get out of trouble. The amount of times we have to go backwards or side ways because no one is working hard off the ball is ridiculous.
Our tackling which was a strength is now shambolic we are lucky to stick 1 in 3 or 4. We allow to many soft tackle breaks. Also our manic pressure inside our attacking 50m is non existent as well. Goldy Blair Caff Elliott all provided this now we have who doing it ?
We are playing players out of positions they can't either play or haven't been coached to play. Pendles has been our midfield star for years our general in there directing and reading the game. He isn't a HBF butthole and nor should he be. Look he's obviously playing busted which is brave but he isn't the same player. As a skipper he isn't the scream rant rave type that Maxy was when needed.
It's easy to blame the coach (and he's not without fault by a long way) but all 3 games so far this year the players have appeared disinterested lazy & slow. A complete contrast to what we saw in the preseason.
Now a coach can only say so much or make so many changes but if the players keep looking to someone else to do the hard work like win the ball then your on a hiding to nothing
We aren't running hard enough
We aren't respecting our opposition
We aren't using the ball at AFL standard
Hard running, manning up and skills are all things the player can fix
Our structure is non existent whoever is in charge of the backline should be shown the door. The zone doesn't work for us simple. Play man on man football. Yes we've got a lot of inexperience down back but hell how hard is it for them to stay within a meter or 2 of there opponent ?
Maxy and to a lesser extent Heater had good game sense when to stay on there man and when to leave. Our back 6 excluding Reid who has been mainly good have no sense at all in any department
I hope they have one of those honesty sessions you hear other clubs have after performances like that. If they do there's a chance they can get the season back on track.
If they keep looking for excuses like
Oh they played really well
Oh were short handed because of injury
The bounce of the ball was against us
Then our chances for season 2016 and beyond are gone.
As for the coach he has some hard work and decisions to make. I would be calling Maxy and saying hey champ come down and work with this back line please
Bucks I say has until the bye and if we aren't at least 6-6 then the board have the remainder of the season to find his replacement for 2017 and beyond.
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John Wren
- Posts: 24186
- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:28 pm
self awareness.Tezza23 wrote:I find it amusing when some posters say that Buckley will put the club first and resign if things are going to plan. The reason why he was such a good footballer was his self-belief. This same self-belief will in his mind at least make him think that he will ALWAYS be the right coach. When you add in Eddie and Perts backing to his mindset means that he will have to be sacked as he will not step down from a contest. that is why so many coaches get sacked and so very few just walk away from the job.
Buckley is coaching in his fifth seasons and will clock up 100 games very soon. He has been using the same game plan for all of that time, its just that now supporters are beginning to see that its just doesn't work.
I'd be interested to know from any VFL watches if we set up the same outdated zone defence in the magoos.
the vfl game style is a replica of the afl game style. it stands to reason it should be this way.
Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle.
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John Wren
- Posts: 24186
- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:28 pm
did you watch them last week? a stationary pedestrian moved faster than them.Culprit wrote:I'm currently watching the Roos and the Dees. At the pace the Dee's are running at and the intensity they are playing, if they produce that next week, round 1 will look like a contest. Can we turn it around? I hope so as I have no confidence currently.
Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle.
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Piesnchess
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