I'll tell you Rohan why the backline isn't going well at the moment, it's coz the ball is coming down there too much with no pressure on the ball carrier. We're all very quick to judge when someone has a bad game. I'd never trade Presti, he rarely gets beaten and tries his hardest every week. He was injured yesterday. Richo had a shocker but he also had a bad matchup yesterday. Richo has been a good player for a few years now and can play back or forward, he's a great assett. Licuria is having a great season so your crazy to say we should get rid of him and finally Dimmatina doesn't play in the backline, he plays in the midfield. Lay off our backline, it's the guys upfield that have to lift and help them out.
Fradam Wrote This
Judkins
Moderator: bbmods
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2 PIES IN CAIRNS
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 1999 6:01 pm
- Location: Cairns, QLD.
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Legsy
I'm sorry guys, but I'm behind Rohan on this one. The trading of King and our No.3 pick to Richmond for Mckee and the No.7 was just plain idiotic. I know we were after someone to ruck so that Josh was looked after, but Mckee was a 5th string ruckman at Richmond. Also, we got rid of Clinton, and ask any tigers supporter now what they think of King and Fiora compared to Mckee and Roach. In that draft, we could have taken Barnes, "Spider" Burton or Matthew Clark as ruckman, kept Clinton as a quality on baller and drafted a player of the quality of Pavlich or Leigh Brown. You talk about the lack of key position players, well there are 2 that will be out and out stars. To add insult to injury, we chased Leigh Brown like nobodies business just recently when it looked like he was not going to stay at Freo. We also did the same thing with Nick Stevens, after passing him over for Wasley (show him the door)in the draft, then offering Stevens half of our salary cap to sign on 2 years later. Scott West chose the Dogs over us. Nearly every out of contract player was chased by us last year, with little result. The Gehrig thing didn't just come down to MM, but we chose not to offer much.
Through my business dealings, I have a fair bit to do with 2 other AFL teams, and their football dept's. Their opinion of us is that we have some talented youngsters, but so does every other club. Ours are on display through neccesity, where as the others are being nursed through their 1st couple of years. They will play at 20 instead of 18. Ask Sheeds his opinion of our group compared to his, and you may not like what you hear.
The future does look alot brighter than a few years ago, but I don't think that we have the team most Collingwood supporters think we have, and I agree with Rohan. Noel Judkins has made some good choices, but if you take into account the positions of our draft choices over the passed 4 years, we really haven't done enough with them. Infact, I truly believe that except for a few "no brainers", our recruiting has been about average at best. How bad would we be going if MM wasn't our coach, and say Blighty, Watson, Drum (who had the job) or an untried caoch was at the helm.
The inside talk is that Judkins has struggled since leaving Essendon, for he is a great spotter of talent, through his netweork of recruiters, but Sheedy made the final decision, and it was Sheedy that recruited the dons, Judkins gave him reading material
Through my business dealings, I have a fair bit to do with 2 other AFL teams, and their football dept's. Their opinion of us is that we have some talented youngsters, but so does every other club. Ours are on display through neccesity, where as the others are being nursed through their 1st couple of years. They will play at 20 instead of 18. Ask Sheeds his opinion of our group compared to his, and you may not like what you hear.
The future does look alot brighter than a few years ago, but I don't think that we have the team most Collingwood supporters think we have, and I agree with Rohan. Noel Judkins has made some good choices, but if you take into account the positions of our draft choices over the passed 4 years, we really haven't done enough with them. Infact, I truly believe that except for a few "no brainers", our recruiting has been about average at best. How bad would we be going if MM wasn't our coach, and say Blighty, Watson, Drum (who had the job) or an untried caoch was at the helm.
The inside talk is that Judkins has struggled since leaving Essendon, for he is a great spotter of talent, through his netweork of recruiters, but Sheedy made the final decision, and it was Sheedy that recruited the dons, Judkins gave him reading material
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Hiya-and-Higher
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 8:01 pm
- Location: South Australia
My main objection to the belittling of individual performances, (beside it not being very friendly to our own), is my belief that for a team to succeed as a *team* they need too be given time to develop as one.
Development means minimising mistakes, learning from those that are made, improving skills, establishing reflex smoothness and telepathy, hardening the toughness, forming a professional attitude so that even when you're down, you try to kick the last goal because that 0.1% may get you a higher position on the ladder.
The commentary of some here seems to suggest we as members are being apathetic and that patience has run out. My perspective is different.
We are rebuilding, and most of our players have joined up in the last 2 years. We are playing top teams full of experienced campaigners who will often win out under pressure when the chips are down because over the years they have learned to do so. The days of 'buying' an instant Superteam are no longer. Today you have to create one.
Since we have little choice about who is next available in the draft, the other option is to work from the premise that all these guys are talented...they all have potential to be anything...they just need the training and coaching and opportunity to prove it
Some will stand up and some may not, but I think we should wait until the end of the year and review overall performance then. Criticising a player when he has a downer is not the way. You don't know whether he is carrying an unpublicised injury, or has the flu, or has family worries, or is just down on confidence.
There are 16 clubs out there so why should we succeed? The name is not enough. It *is* the culture that will do it. If you feel loyalty and passion for the club you will bleed for it...go that extra mile if called on to do so. If you get bagged for every indiscretion and chopped up by your own, then how long will it be before you just go out and go through the motions?
A local S.A. lad tried out with Geelong, Richmond and Collingwood as a rookie. He didn't make it...but he *loved* Collingwood better than the other two because of how they helped him and treated him. He's been praising them around here ever since. That's the type of thing that will lift us above the rest. As for business? Well I don't think sheer talent alone gets you the goods...if we trade a loyal player playing his heart out, for a talented mercenary...we may win a few more games, but I doubt we'll ever win the big one. All these guys can play...so give them something *more* than money to play for.
Development means minimising mistakes, learning from those that are made, improving skills, establishing reflex smoothness and telepathy, hardening the toughness, forming a professional attitude so that even when you're down, you try to kick the last goal because that 0.1% may get you a higher position on the ladder.
The commentary of some here seems to suggest we as members are being apathetic and that patience has run out. My perspective is different.
We are rebuilding, and most of our players have joined up in the last 2 years. We are playing top teams full of experienced campaigners who will often win out under pressure when the chips are down because over the years they have learned to do so. The days of 'buying' an instant Superteam are no longer. Today you have to create one.
Since we have little choice about who is next available in the draft, the other option is to work from the premise that all these guys are talented...they all have potential to be anything...they just need the training and coaching and opportunity to prove it
Some will stand up and some may not, but I think we should wait until the end of the year and review overall performance then. Criticising a player when he has a downer is not the way. You don't know whether he is carrying an unpublicised injury, or has the flu, or has family worries, or is just down on confidence.
There are 16 clubs out there so why should we succeed? The name is not enough. It *is* the culture that will do it. If you feel loyalty and passion for the club you will bleed for it...go that extra mile if called on to do so. If you get bagged for every indiscretion and chopped up by your own, then how long will it be before you just go out and go through the motions?
A local S.A. lad tried out with Geelong, Richmond and Collingwood as a rookie. He didn't make it...but he *loved* Collingwood better than the other two because of how they helped him and treated him. He's been praising them around here ever since. That's the type of thing that will lift us above the rest. As for business? Well I don't think sheer talent alone gets you the goods...if we trade a loyal player playing his heart out, for a talented mercenary...we may win a few more games, but I doubt we'll ever win the big one. All these guys can play...so give them something *more* than money to play for.
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ck_nd
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2001 7:01 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Rohan dribbled:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Carol mentioned that the Kangaroos have had success while being broke. Well after watching today's game I can tell you which one I would prefer to have.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So Rohan, you would prefer us to go broke and have to relocate - how does the Western Sydney Magpies sound to you? Sydney should be able to support a second team. (Can't take Canberra b/c the Canberra Kangaroos have a dibs on the place.)
I am more than happy to patiently wait for the development of our team (as much as I want overnight success common sense says that probably won't happen) and as the club is working towards financial stability as well, the above scenario may be the only option for the survival of other clubs but not ours.
You seem to push the accountability line... so, how are our players showing that they are not accountable for their actions. They, I am sure know that if they don't perform they are out on their arse. The club is showing that they are accountable for what is happening financially with the club, Mr McGuire has done a brilliant job in my honest opinion with picking up the club from near falling apart and building it up again.
I don't know about your circumstances but a lot of us people who support Collingwood have to work our butts off (in life) to get where we are today - that takes a lot of hard work and time. Yes, sometimes it even takes years, many years. We know what we are aiming for and we are taking steps towards it, sometimes they have to be small steps - which is probably why we are a little more patient in waiting for results, and a little more tolerant of our people.
Rohan it sounds like you have a bee in your bonnet... where I come from only girls wear bonnets.
Get over it!
May the Holy Cross chicks prevail!
Go Pies!
Carol
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Carol mentioned that the Kangaroos have had success while being broke. Well after watching today's game I can tell you which one I would prefer to have.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So Rohan, you would prefer us to go broke and have to relocate - how does the Western Sydney Magpies sound to you? Sydney should be able to support a second team. (Can't take Canberra b/c the Canberra Kangaroos have a dibs on the place.)
I am more than happy to patiently wait for the development of our team (as much as I want overnight success common sense says that probably won't happen) and as the club is working towards financial stability as well, the above scenario may be the only option for the survival of other clubs but not ours.
You seem to push the accountability line... so, how are our players showing that they are not accountable for their actions. They, I am sure know that if they don't perform they are out on their arse. The club is showing that they are accountable for what is happening financially with the club, Mr McGuire has done a brilliant job in my honest opinion with picking up the club from near falling apart and building it up again.
I don't know about your circumstances but a lot of us people who support Collingwood have to work our butts off (in life) to get where we are today - that takes a lot of hard work and time. Yes, sometimes it even takes years, many years. We know what we are aiming for and we are taking steps towards it, sometimes they have to be small steps - which is probably why we are a little more patient in waiting for results, and a little more tolerant of our people.
Rohan it sounds like you have a bee in your bonnet... where I come from only girls wear bonnets.
Get over it!May the Holy Cross chicks prevail!
Go Pies!
Carol
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GO RUPERT 10
- Posts: 1492
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2001 6:01 pm
- Location: THOMASTOWN,VIC,AUSTRALIA
HAS THIS GUY HAD A FEW TOO MANY CONES LATELY?
PAUL LICURIA HAS BEEN ONE OF OUR MOST IMPROVED PLAYERS ALL YEAR
I MUST ADMIT I WAS VERY CRITICAL OF HIM LAST YEAR BUT HIS DISPOSAL HAS IMPROVED SIGNIFICANTLY AND HE IS A VERY GOOD LINK UP PLAYER .I BET HE FINISHES TOP 5 IN THE COPELAND THIS YEAR
AND DONT U LOVE IT WHEN WE WIN A FEW OUR SUPPORTERS ARE AS HAPPY AS LARRY BUT WHEN WE DROP A FEW THE KNIVES START TO COME OUT
ARE U SURE YOU DIDNT BARRACK FOR RICHMOND IN A PAST LIFE?
PAUL LICURIA HAS BEEN ONE OF OUR MOST IMPROVED PLAYERS ALL YEAR
I MUST ADMIT I WAS VERY CRITICAL OF HIM LAST YEAR BUT HIS DISPOSAL HAS IMPROVED SIGNIFICANTLY AND HE IS A VERY GOOD LINK UP PLAYER .I BET HE FINISHES TOP 5 IN THE COPELAND THIS YEAR
AND DONT U LOVE IT WHEN WE WIN A FEW OUR SUPPORTERS ARE AS HAPPY AS LARRY BUT WHEN WE DROP A FEW THE KNIVES START TO COME OUT
ARE U SURE YOU DIDNT BARRACK FOR RICHMOND IN A PAST LIFE?
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Rohan Coventry Tateson
Just because I don't agree with certain people does it make me less of supporter?
What has my background got to do with the issue Joffa? I don't know you from a bar of soap but you seem to know that I'm a sissy because I went to a private school. Judging by this generalization Eddie is also a sissy boy because he went to a private school.
Why should I go for Richmond? Just because I don't agree with things we do, I'm turning on my own supposedly. What gives you the right to say I should go for Richmond and not Collingwood? Maybe when your family has contributed over 4 players, 500 plus games, 9 flags, and 20 years as a committee men and president combined like mine, maybe you will have this right to do so.
By getting personal we are all losing focus of the real issue.
May the St Kevin's Old Boys Prevail.
What has my background got to do with the issue Joffa? I don't know you from a bar of soap but you seem to know that I'm a sissy because I went to a private school. Judging by this generalization Eddie is also a sissy boy because he went to a private school.
Why should I go for Richmond? Just because I don't agree with things we do, I'm turning on my own supposedly. What gives you the right to say I should go for Richmond and not Collingwood? Maybe when your family has contributed over 4 players, 500 plus games, 9 flags, and 20 years as a committee men and president combined like mine, maybe you will have this right to do so.
By getting personal we are all losing focus of the real issue.
May the St Kevin's Old Boys Prevail.
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Fradam
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 1999 6:01 pm
- Location: Bendigo, Victoria
Rohan said " in the 99 draft we took Shaw at pick 18. Around this time Green, Spriggs and Brett Burton were taken. In 98 we took Oborne at 35 yet around the same time, Dragecevic, Fevola and Jacobs were taken. In 99 we also took Roach at 3, around this
time Haselby, Pavilich and Brown were taken."
I think your judging a bit early. Shaw is only in his second year and has had only a handful of opportunities. The same goes for Roach. Give em a go Rohan, come out and make your judgement in five years, not now when these players havent had a chance.
Fradam Wrote This
time Haselby, Pavilich and Brown were taken."
I think your judging a bit early. Shaw is only in his second year and has had only a handful of opportunities. The same goes for Roach. Give em a go Rohan, come out and make your judgement in five years, not now when these players havent had a chance.
Fradam Wrote This
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London Dave
- Posts: 7172
- Joined: Wed Dec 16, 1998 7:01 pm
- Location: Iceland on Thames
- Contact:
I tend to agree wth Rohan and Legsy on this one, as I don't think our recruiting has been brilliant over the last few years, although we have picked up the core of what could be a good side. As I've always said when these type of threads have turned up over the last few years, it's gonna take time, and MM and co are not fools. We were so far behind othe clubs it wasn't funny. This season we are still a big chance for the finals, which we haven't been since I left Oz, a long bloody time.
We will pick duds at no 5 and good players at 50 in the draft, its the nature of the system.
Mandy, that is a TOP idea for a website. Love it!
We will pick duds at no 5 and good players at 50 in the draft, its the nature of the system.
Mandy, that is a TOP idea for a website. Love it!
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Kate
Come on guys, we all know that our mate Rohan has a whinge at every opportunity. Don't you even KNOW that he is one of the Coventrys so he has every right to talk shit he has no clues about and imply that who he is related to gives him an undeniable upper hand and boundless footy knowledge??
You know what Rohan? I've read your constant bitches about the players, Eddie, the club, and other members of the football staff over the past couple of years, but you seem to keep coming back to Judkins. My suspicion is that our mate Noel overlooked you for recruitment in your heyday at St Kevs, right? A few sour grapes? Because that is the only reason I can think of why you have a whinge whenever you get the chance about arguably the best recruiter in the league. Maybe if someone like him had spotted you running around with your mates, you could be bragging about that fact that YOU were a great football playing Coventry, rather than almost everyone else in your family EXCEPT you.
And I am very interested to know why you once again find it necessary to publicly broadcast his salary, as if it is any of our business, or yours for that matter- and as though you would know for a fact.
You are an idiot. And I cherish the opportunity to finally not have to find any diplomatic or subtle way of saying that.
You know what Rohan? I've read your constant bitches about the players, Eddie, the club, and other members of the football staff over the past couple of years, but you seem to keep coming back to Judkins. My suspicion is that our mate Noel overlooked you for recruitment in your heyday at St Kevs, right? A few sour grapes? Because that is the only reason I can think of why you have a whinge whenever you get the chance about arguably the best recruiter in the league. Maybe if someone like him had spotted you running around with your mates, you could be bragging about that fact that YOU were a great football playing Coventry, rather than almost everyone else in your family EXCEPT you.
And I am very interested to know why you once again find it necessary to publicly broadcast his salary, as if it is any of our business, or yours for that matter- and as though you would know for a fact.
You are an idiot. And I cherish the opportunity to finally not have to find any diplomatic or subtle way of saying that.
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magpie jeff
For gods sake rohan stop bein a pompous prick what gives the inclination you know better becuase your related to the name coventry...get your hand of it mate,i have noticed rohan that your one of the old collingwood brigade the brigade that got this club into so much shit not long ago..let me explain mate not once this year have you come along and praised collingwood for what they have done NO NO NO you poke your head in here when you think the name 'coventry' knows so much than the rest of us...the old days of backstabbing in the stairway and corners at vic park are gone mate long long gone and im bloody pleased mate that those dark days have gone for ever.
I have a challenge for you you rohan please forgive my box hill tech education background...please forgive me also i cant boast i know more than you, sorry i didnt have any relatives play for collingwood...but here is my challenge mate i want you to write a post in a new topic of 1000 words or more on how collingwood have improved so much and how much greater it has become to see a future at pieland..ok mate off you go i will be back later to look..surely its gotta be better than to read all your negative bullshit all the time.
By the way mate how many players did you slag yesterday in the social club section.
COLLINGWOOD..simply the best...BETTER THAN ALL THE REST!!we will never forget our great number #42...GO YOU BLOODY PIES yeaaah LETS KICK ASS.lets kill the bloody bastards !!
http://www.mp3.com/joffa
I have a challenge for you you rohan please forgive my box hill tech education background...please forgive me also i cant boast i know more than you, sorry i didnt have any relatives play for collingwood...but here is my challenge mate i want you to write a post in a new topic of 1000 words or more on how collingwood have improved so much and how much greater it has become to see a future at pieland..ok mate off you go i will be back later to look..surely its gotta be better than to read all your negative bullshit all the time.
By the way mate how many players did you slag yesterday in the social club section.
COLLINGWOOD..simply the best...BETTER THAN ALL THE REST!!we will never forget our great number #42...GO YOU BLOODY PIES yeaaah LETS KICK ASS.lets kill the bloody bastards !!
http://www.mp3.com/joffa
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Black_White
Ha, Ha!
Nice to see you still have the time to come see us Kate.
Also nice to see that you are still speaking your mind.
Rohan, you know my feelings here. Your ancestoral links to the great CFC give you no more or less a right to critisize the club than any other supporter.
We all have an opinion, it's just that yours seems to be a negative one and continues to get back to the same old topics without giving any plausible way of changing things.
And if you don't like that Rohan.......well...........let's talk a little about ELO ! ! !
LOL
-Craig
FAITH
Nice to see you still have the time to come see us Kate.
Also nice to see that you are still speaking your mind.
Rohan, you know my feelings here. Your ancestoral links to the great CFC give you no more or less a right to critisize the club than any other supporter.
We all have an opinion, it's just that yours seems to be a negative one and continues to get back to the same old topics without giving any plausible way of changing things.
And if you don't like that Rohan.......well...........let's talk a little about ELO ! ! !
LOL
-Craig
FAITH