Post-match: Pies down to Carlton

[Magpietothemax]

[58pie]

We should instigate plans to amalgamate with Footscray,. That way we get a great coach and Bill Pickens son who we should have taken under father/son.
Great players dont make great coaches. Bucks should join Voss & Hird stay in the media or study under a real coach.

[thompsoc]

we must find out why our players are the most injury prone.

No Simon the drums are not beating louder. Collingwood will stick with Bucks this season as it should.

Just about every 'earmarked' player is missing from the backline. Reid is the only positive from that area. The centre players have lost form and spirit. Pendles is playing injured and the forwards are pretty much crap. Apart from Faz and Moore we don't have an in-form forward.

I understand that quite a few people posting here (and they seem to be the same <snip> that infect the Game On thread), are thirsting for blood and are happy to lay into the coach, the coaching panel, Balmey, Eddie and the trainers, but the team is very, very young and blaming and sacking is the Richmond way, not the Collingwood way.

Have we grossly overrated our list or are we just out of form? I agree that we ought to be doing better. We have enough high draft picks to be playing with far greater skill and purpose, but sacking Bucks (to bring in whom?) would achieve nothing.

Richmond has been strong in the face of similar calls for the sacking of Hardwick. They have identified that it's not a head coach issue. Richmond doesn't have the list we have and they'll make changes to their support team no doubt after their review.

I am worried, but it's never just as easy as sacking the coach unless he has lost the players. The Bulldogs and Adelaide players were not happy with their senior coaches a few seasons ago and those clubs acted quickly.

This is not the case at Collingwood. We need to stick with the club and support our players. We need to be side by side and dare I say it, grow some and stop whining like pathetic little <snip, play the ball, not the other player - bbmods>.

Really Neil
I expected better from you with some of your abuse about other posters.
I want hope not same old same old.
The criticism that you level at certain posters can easily be levelled at you.

[Cam]

What I got out of today from the top deck.

Our forward line - was very efficient until the last q when it went stone cold
Our mids - at times were unstoppable, at times were unaccountable
our backs - I've watched us 3 times in the flesh this year and that was the best we have teamed out of defence, but our kickins are still too random in their effectiveness
Our disposal efficiency was high 70s most of the game, we were winning uncontested possessions but lost the contested through our lack of body size

Overall - our young guys got pushed off the ball too easily and that decided the ballgame. The umpires were unreal too.

Reid - we would have got smashed by 60+ without him, epic
Moore - my goodness he is the real deal
Maynard - showed some very promising signs, some strength
Aish - liked his run and smarts at times, but too few and too easily pushed off the ball, needs to get stronger
White - one of his best games for the club, actually played like he has been instructed to do in the seconds.. and it worked. Always an enigma
Howe - intercept marking was great. He's a good footballer fullstop, not an athlete, he will have a very good career here and grow to be very important. Got to get more of the footy, but growing.
Blair - had some moments but looked too short, which means he has slowed a little
Smith - ok but little impact
Pendlebury and Sidebottom - class and poise, tried all day
Cox - needed to nail that goal from a free that Cloke would never get. Back to the twos for a rest and give Witts another run
Ox, Broom, good disposal but not enough flash or grunt to impact much
Fasolo - most impact of anyone, great goals. In fact Crocker marking in front of him and missing may have ended our chances right there.
Crocker - needed to let Fasolo mark but young men do that
Greenwood - ok
De Goey - tried hard but needs to change his boots
Frost - love him but he needs to stay aware when the footy is near him and not just gravitate back to his man because he is taking himself out as a playmaker or linkman when he is needed
Toovey - thought Tooves was more his reliable self today

Treloar was well held mostly by Curnow, needs to get stronger to deal with hangers on
Grundy didn't fire a shot around the ground

Our game plan was fine, its the same as most, run, spread, switch etc, seriously its not the rocket science many people make out. Any game plan is great if you have guys who can win, use and keep the ball.. and any plan is shite if you don't have those people. Think it through. People that have played a lot of footy will know what I mean.

We just have too many immature bodies running around. I think the match committee know this and are developing the team. I don't mind that. I hated losing but in the light of day we are growing a team. We are really missing the hard bodies and class of Swan, Varcoe, Elliott, Adams and Marley. Get games into these kids, they can play, they just need time. Like it or not.

[PyreneesPie]

To a certain degree I agree with what you say. What I get annoyed with are those that continually post negative comments about the club and those running it (Pres, Board, Coach etc).

We are a young side. Still learning. Are we improving? At the moment we are treading water. No doubt about it. We don't have the experience in the team.

You say you didn't have them in the top 4. I never had our team in the 8 this year.! In 2 years time it should be different.

Have I had my doubts in Buckley.....you bet. If the board and the club have faith in the the coach...so do I. I absolutely hate it when people call for the coaches head when they have no idea of what is happening inside the club. If we are having these conversations here, don't you think the club is having them as well? I bet they bloody well are. And probably harder discussions than those here. They want success also.

It is all the negativity that really pisses me off. And it happens so quickly and easily. That is why I say some of these are not true or loyal supporters.

You need to take the good with the bad.

Excellent post IMHO.
You've made some points that really strike home with me too.

Firstly... expectations. I often wonder if many expect that we have some god-given right to always finish at least in the top eight every year. Why should we be immune to bottoming out like other teams? It's how the competition is purposefully constructed, that some teams will rise, while others fall. It's impossible that we will not experience a downturn at some point.

I think that often supporters allow the media to dictate their expectations too. We apparently started favourites today, which I failed to understand. One look at the comparative experience in the two teams should have suggested otherwise.

Secondly, why is it that some think they know so much more about the game sitting in the stands or in their lounge rooms than the ones who are coaching it and playing it? How can they come to such definite conclusions, that the coach (es) is rubbish/ineffective/useless/needs to go, when they have no idea what is being said and done within the inner walls of the club?

True, we are not making much head-way at the moment, but I suggest that everyone at the club is working their guts out to get the wheels turning, including questioning the best methods of getting it done.

[think positive]

[makri]

Accepting mediocrity and parceling it up as patience. Probably goes a long way to explaining why we have only won two flags in 57 years.

[PyreneesPie]

What I got out of today from the top deck.

Our forward line - was very efficient until the last q when it went stone cold
Our mids - at times were unstoppable, at times were unaccountable
our backs - I've watched us 3 times in the flesh this year and that was the best we have teamed out of defence, but our kickins are still too random in their effectiveness
Our disposal efficiency was high 70s most of the game, we were winning uncontested possessions but lost the contested through our lack of body size

Overall - our young guys got pushed off the ball too easily and that decided the ballgame. The umpires were unreal too.

Reid - we would have got smashed by 60+ without him, epic
Moore - my goodness he is the real deal
Maynard - showed some very promising signs, some strength
Aish - liked his run and smarts at times, but too few and too easily pushed off the ball, needs to get stronger
White - one of his best games for the club, actually played like he has been instructed to do in the seconds.. and it worked. Always an enigma
Howe - intercept marking was great. He's a good footballer fullstop, not an athlete, he will have a very good career here and grow to be very important. Got to get more of the footy, but growing.
Blair - had some moments but looked too short, which means he has slowed a little
Smith - ok but little impact
Pendlebury and Sidebottom - class and poise, tried all day
Cox - needed to nail that goal from a free that Cloke would never get. Back to the twos for a rest and give Witts another run
Ox, Broom, good disposal but not enough flash or grunt to impact much
Fasolo - most impact of anyone, great goals. In fact Crocker marking in front of him and missing may have ended our chances right there.
Crocker - needed to let Fasolo mark but young men do that
Greenwood - ok
De Goey - tried hard but needs to change his boots
Frost - love him but he needs to stay aware when the footy is near him and not just gravitate back to his man because he is taking himself out as a playmaker or linkman when he is needed
Toovey - thought Tooves was more his reliable self today

Treloar was well held mostly by Curnow, needs to get stronger to deal with hangers on
Grundy didn't fire a shot around the ground

Our game plan was fine, its the same as most, run, spread, switch etc, seriously its not the rocket science many people make out. Any game plan is great if you have guys who can win, use and keep the ball.. and any plan is shite if you don't have those people. Think it through. People that have played a lot of footy will know what I mean.

We just have too many immature bodies running around. I think the match committee know this and are developing the team. I don't mind that. I hated losing but in the light of day we are growing a team. We are really missing the hard bodies and class of Swan, Varcoe, Elliott, Adams and Marley. Get games into these kids, they can play, they just need time. Like it or not.

Thanks so much for this match-report Cam. Much appreciated.

[makri]

What I got out of today from the top deck.

Our forward line - was very efficient until the last q when it went stone cold
Our mids - at times were unstoppable, at times were unaccountable
our backs - I've watched us 3 times in the flesh this year and that was the best we have teamed out of defence, but our kickins are still too random in their effectiveness
Our disposal efficiency was high 70s most of the game, we were winning uncontested possessions but lost the contested through our lack of body size

Overall - our young guys got pushed off the ball too easily and that decided the ballgame. The umpires were unreal too.

Reid - we would have got smashed by 60+ without him, epic
Moore - my goodness he is the real deal
Maynard - showed some very promising signs, some strength
Aish - liked his run and smarts at times, but too few and too easily pushed off the ball, needs to get stronger
White - one of his best games for the club, actually played like he has been instructed to do in the seconds.. and it worked. Always an enigma
Howe - intercept marking was great. He's a good footballer fullstop, not an athlete, he will have a very good career here and grow to be very important. Got to get more of the footy, but growing.
Blair - had some moments but looked too short, which means he has slowed a little
Smith - ok but little impact
Pendlebury and Sidebottom - class and poise, tried all day
Cox - needed to nail that goal from a free that Cloke would never get. Back to the twos for a rest and give Witts another run
Ox, Broom, good disposal but not enough flash or grunt to impact much
Fasolo - most impact of anyone, great goals. In fact Crocker marking in front of him and missing may have ended our chances right there.
Crocker - needed to let Fasolo mark but young men do that
Greenwood - ok
De Goey - tried hard but needs to change his boots
Frost - love him but he needs to stay aware when the footy is near him and not just gravitate back to his man because he is taking himself out as a playmaker or linkman when he is needed
Toovey - thought Tooves was more his reliable self today

Treloar was well held mostly by Curnow, needs to get stronger to deal with hangers on
Grundy didn't fire a shot around the ground

Our game plan was fine, its the same as most, run, spread, switch etc, seriously its not the rocket science many people make out. Any game plan is great if you have guys who can win, use and keep the ball.. and any plan is shite if you don't have those people. Think it through. People that have played a lot of footy will know what I mean.

We just have too many immature bodies running around. I think the match committee know this and are developing the team. I don't mind that. I hated losing but in the light of day we are growing a team. We are really missing the hard bodies and class of Swan, Varcoe, Elliott, Adams and Marley. Get games into these kids, they can play, they just need time. Like it or not.

Agree with White, thought he was actually really good today.
As for Grundy, he needs to get rid of those orange boots, they remind me of witches hats, but then again so does he!

[think positive]

we must find out why our players are the most injury prone.

No Simon the drums are not beating louder. Collingwood will stick with Bucks this season as it should.

Just about every 'earmarked' player is missing from the backline. Reid is the only positive from that area. The centre players have lost form and spirit. Pendles is playing injured and the forwards are pretty much crap. Apart from Faz and Moore we don't have an in-form forward.

I understand that quite a few people posting here (and they seem to be the same <snip> that infect the Game On thread), are thirsting for blood and are happy to lay into the coach, the coaching panel, Balmey, Eddie and the trainers, but the team is very, very young and blaming and sacking is the Richmond way, not the Collingwood way.

Have we grossly overrated our list or are we just out of form? I agree that we ought to be doing better. We have enough high draft picks to be playing with far greater skill and purpose, but sacking Bucks (to bring in whom?) would achieve nothing.

Richmond has been strong in the face of similar calls for the sacking of Hardwick. They have identified that it's not a head coach issue. Richmond doesn't have the list we have and they'll make changes to their support team no doubt after their review.

I am worried, but it's never just as easy as sacking the coach unless he has lost the players. The Bulldogs and Adelaide players were not happy with their senior coaches a few seasons ago and those clubs acted quickly.

This is not the case at Collingwood. We need to stick with the club and support our players. We need to be side by side and dare I say it, grow some and stop whining like <snip, play the ball, not the other player - bbmods>.

How do you know they players are not dissatisfied with the coaches? Shit the talent we have if they are playing for him, got help us! He has lost the players, there is no doubt in my mind. Many are confused, disinterested, and don't look to be enjoying their footy. All those Pendles lovers, watch the replay, how many times did he stop running, not many second efforts, one time he could have easily intercepted a mark and he chose not too. Body language speaks volumes. MM. With his allowances for any and every weird habit the players had, compared to Nathan's method. This is not working. He doesn't have a team of machines. He has one, Pendles, and it's backfiring like its on 6 cal instead of 8

[think positive]

What I got out of today from the top deck.

Our forward line - was very efficient until the last q when it went stone cold
Our mids - at times were unstoppable, at times were unaccountable
our backs - I've watched us 3 times in the flesh this year and that was the best we have teamed out of defence, but our kickins are still too random in their effectiveness
Our disposal efficiency was high 70s most of the game, we were winning uncontested possessions but lost the contested through our lack of body size

Overall - our young guys got pushed off the ball too easily and that decided the ballgame. The umpires were unreal too.

Reid - we would have got smashed by 60+ without him, epic
Moore - my goodness he is the real deal
Maynard - showed some very promising signs, some strength
Aish - liked his run and smarts at times, but too few and too easily pushed off the ball, needs to get stronger
White - one of his best games for the club, actually played like he has been instructed to do in the seconds.. and it worked. Always an enigma
Howe - intercept marking was great. He's a good footballer fullstop, not an athlete, he will have a very good career here and grow to be very important. Got to get more of the footy, but growing.
Blair - had some moments but looked too short, which means he has slowed a little
Smith - ok but little impact
Pendlebury and Sidebottom - class and poise, tried all day
Cox - needed to nail that goal from a free that Cloke would never get. Back to the twos for a rest and give Witts another run
Ox, Broom, good disposal but not enough flash or grunt to impact much
Fasolo - most impact of anyone, great goals. In fact Crocker marking in front of him and missing may have ended our chances right there.
Crocker - needed to let Fasolo mark but young men do that
Greenwood - ok
De Goey - tried hard but needs to change his boots
Frost - love him but he needs to stay aware when the footy is near him and not just gravitate back to his man because he is taking himself out as a playmaker or linkman when he is needed
Toovey - thought Tooves was more his reliable self today

Treloar was well held mostly by Curnow, needs to get stronger to deal with hangers on
Grundy didn't fire a shot around the ground

Our game plan was fine, its the same as most, run, spread, switch etc, seriously its not the rocket science many people make out. Any game plan is great if you have guys who can win, use and keep the ball.. and any plan is shite if you don't have those people. Think it through. People that have played a lot of footy will know what I mean.

We just have too many immature bodies running around. I think the match committee know this and are developing the team. I don't mind that. I hated losing but in the light of day we are growing a team. We are really missing the hard bodies and class of Swan, Varcoe, Elliott, Adams and Marley. Get games into these kids, they can play, they just need time. Like it or not.

Agree with White, thought he was actually really good today.
As for Grundy, he needs to get rid of those orange boots, they remind me of witches hats, but then again so does he!

Hehe true that

[BJ]

Too many dumb footballers today, got into spaces where they should not have been, hence penalised for it, both by the opposition and the umps

[Neil Appleby]

we must find out why our players are the most injury prone.

No Simon the drums are not beating louder. Collingwood will stick with Bucks this season as it should.

Just about every 'earmarked' player is missing from the backline. Reid is the only positive from that area. The centre players have lost form and spirit. Pendles is playing injured and the forwards are pretty much crap. Apart from Faz and Moore we don't have an in-form forward.

I understand that quite a few people posting here (and they seem to be the same <snip> that infect the Game On thread), are thirsting for blood and are happy to lay into the coach, the coaching panel, Balmey, Eddie and the trainers, but the team is very, very young and blaming and sacking is the Richmond way, not the Collingwood way.

Have we grossly overrated our list or are we just out of form? I agree that we ought to be doing better. We have enough high draft picks to be playing with far greater skill and purpose, but sacking Bucks (to bring in whom?) would achieve nothing.

Richmond has been strong in the face of similar calls for the sacking of Hardwick. They have identified that it's not a head coach issue. Richmond doesn't have the list we have and they'll make changes to their support team no doubt after their review.

I am worried, but it's never just as easy as sacking the coach unless he has lost the players. The Bulldogs and Adelaide players were not happy with their senior coaches a few seasons ago and those clubs acted quickly.

This is not the case at Collingwood. We need to stick with the club and support our players. We need to be side by side and dare I say it, grow some and stop whining like <snip, play the ball, not the other player - bbmods>.

Really Neil
I expected better from you with some of your abuse about other posters.
I want hope not same old same old.
The criticism that you level at certain posters can easily be levelled at you.

Come of it thompsoc. I don't think I've said anything that will hurt the feelings of the <snip> that are lining up in here tonight. If they come into a public forum and spout drivel every time we lose (and sometimes even when we win), then they deserve to cop it. And yes, they are whining like <snip>. They ought to be embarrassed. One so called supporter, whom I suspect doesn't even barrack for Collingwood, called the coach a FLOG.

BTW thompsoc, I've been here a long time and copped plenty. I don't go running off to <snip, you assume that we have to be alerted when posters are out of line. Don't. And stop playing the other player, play the ball instead - bbmods> every time somebody says something that offends me.

[Raw Hammer]

So, I'm at the Bulldogs vs Crows game right now, and holy sh!t it's depressing seeing how far behind thexrestbifcthd 'challenging' group this team of ours is. I recommend others venture out and watch a live game of other clubs and you will most certainly see we are on s bad, bad path. We're a team of sub-180cm midgits, and the problem is, most of our dwarves lack skill.

[Mugwump]

What I got out of today from the top deck.

Our forward line - was very efficient until the last q when it went stone cold
Our mids - at times were unstoppable, at times were unaccountable
our backs - I've watched us 3 times in the flesh this year and that was the best we have teamed out of defence, but our kickins are still too random in their effectiveness
Our disposal efficiency was high 70s most of the game, we were winning uncontested possessions but lost the contested through our lack of body size

Overall - our young guys got pushed off the ball too easily and that decided the ballgame. The umpires were unreal too.

Reid - we would have got smashed by 60+ without him, epic
Moore - my goodness he is the real deal
Maynard - showed some very promising signs, some strength
Aish - liked his run and smarts at times, but too few and too easily pushed off the ball, needs to get stronger
White - one of his best games for the club, actually played like he has been instructed to do in the seconds.. and it worked. Always an enigma
Howe - intercept marking was great. He's a good footballer fullstop, not an athlete, he will have a very good career here and grow to be very important. Got to get more of the footy, but growing.
Blair - had some moments but looked too short, which means he has slowed a little
Smith - ok but little impact
Pendlebury and Sidebottom - class and poise, tried all day
Cox - needed to nail that goal from a free that Cloke would never get. Back to the twos for a rest and give Witts another run
Ox, Broom, good disposal but not enough flash or grunt to impact much
Fasolo - most impact of anyone, great goals. In fact Crocker marking in front of him and missing may have ended our chances right there.
Crocker - needed to let Fasolo mark but young men do that
Greenwood - ok
De Goey - tried hard but needs to change his boots
Frost - love him but he needs to stay aware when the footy is near him and not just gravitate back to his man because he is taking himself out as a playmaker or linkman when he is needed
Toovey - thought Tooves was more his reliable self today

Treloar was well held mostly by Curnow, needs to get stronger to deal with hangers on
Grundy didn't fire a shot around the ground

Our game plan was fine, its the same as most, run, spread, switch etc, seriously its not the rocket science many people make out. Any game plan is great if you have guys who can win, use and keep the ball.. and any plan is shite if you don't have those people. Think it through. People that have played a lot of footy will know what I mean.

We just have too many immature bodies running around. I think the match committee know this and are developing the team. I don't mind that. I hated losing but in the light of day we are growing a team. We are really missing the hard bodies and class of Swan, Varcoe, Elliott, Adams and Marley. Get games into these kids, they can play, they just need time. Like it or not.

Great post, Cam. I disagree re Blair, who personally almost turned the game's momentum in our favour until that unfortunate Toovey handball, but your analysis of where we are, and why, seems very sound to me. We need stability and cohesion and leadership. All of those will come with time. I do not know whether Buckley can create that, but we'll know more by year end and can make that decision then. What i do know is that even great coaches cannot win without the right cattle. And today's Collngwood side was a mix of calves with too few bulls. It was godawful to watch, but reconstruction often is.