Post match. Pies thumped by Port. All comments please.

[Daniel]

I think you believed a lot of SPIN at the beginning of the year, when FACT was we were unlikely to make top 8, even without injury - given the age of our list and lack of time playing together.

I didn't believe any spin preseason.

But the club believed it would make the 8 when the traded away their first pick this season. They banked on the pick not being a Top 10 pick this year when they traded for Treloar.

Now they are about to hand over two Top 6 picks for 1 player in a period they are meant to be rebuilding. An unmitigated disaster.

What did you expect the club to say publically? Nah, we won't make the 8 this year.

It was a possiblity *all things going well, especially injury*, however an educated look at our list and the time they have played together would suggest otherwise.

Now pardon my scepticism, the club thought Treloar was worth two 1st rounders. I agree, he is young and a gun. Whether we finish 2nd (we were never going to win a flag this year) or last doesn't matter, infact it is better that we finish last (unlikely) given our second rounder will be earlier.

There is also the possibily the club may offload Brown to free up salary space and receive at best a second round compo pick.

J Thomas (if fit) will be plug and play and offer the sort of clearance work we are lacking this year.

L Keefe (if fit) will be plug and play and offer the ability to swing Reid forward.

This is isn't a disaster at all, given the injury list to key players, and ongoing poor form of Cloke, this is where I would expect us to be right now.

[think positive]

I think you believed a lot of SPIN at the beginning of the year, when FACT was we were unlikely to make top 8, even without injury - given the age of our list and lack of time playing together.

I didn't believe any spin preseason.

But the club believed it would make the 8 when the traded away their first pick this season. They banked on the pick not being a Top 10 pick this year when they traded for Treloar.

Now they are about to hand over two Top 6 picks for 1 player in a period they are meant to be rebuilding. An unmitigated disaster.

What did you expect the club to say publically? Nah, we won't make the 8 this year.

It was a possiblity *all things going well, especially injury*, however an educated look at our list and the time they have played together would suggest otherwise.

Now pardon my scepticism, the club thought Treloar was worth two 1st rounders. I agree, he is young and a gun. Whether we finish 2nd (we were never going to win a flag this year) or last doesn't matter, infact it is better that we finish last (unlikely) given our second rounder will be earlier.

There is also the possibily the club may offload Brown to free up salary space and receive at best a second round compo pick.

J Thomas (if fit) will be plug and play and offer the sort of clearance work we are lacking this year.

L Keefe (if fit) will be plug and play and offer the ability to swing Reid forward.

This is isn't a disaster at all, given the injury list to key players, and ongoing poor form of Cloke, this is where I would expect us to be right now.

Great post. Not sure Thomas will be back though, we have enough like him, whereas Keefe we desperately need right now.


Also agree on Treloar. Along with DeGoey I reckon will be something very special.

[melliot]

This year is a disaster by any definition.

[Daniel]

This year is a disaster by any definition.

we all see things differently.

you may have been happy making finals or even being bridesmaid again.

I would prefer we get games into kids and push hard in 2017 and 2018 (when our chances will be more realistic), with Josh Thomas and Keefe to be ready made next year.

I disagree respectfully about us having too many of Josh Thomas' type as he is a clearance specialist and we don't have many.

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

You can bet your bottom dollar that the club will spin the injury line for the remainder of the year. It's all this club does now, it should be a PR firm or a political party rather than a football club. Infact I have already received an email from a club employee (I am happy to show it to a moderator to validate it) that they will use that narrative to defend their poor performance.

35 players used, more than any other club is FACT, not SPIN.

I think you believed a lot of SPIN at the beginning of the year, when FACT was we were unlikely to make top 8, even without injury - given the age of our list and lack of time playing together.

I disagree with your assessment of the situation. While we were never going to win the premiership this year we had every reason to think we had the makings on a final 8 side, given who we recruited and an extra year of development in our younger players. For one reason or another it hasn't worked out that way and now it's all about salvaging what's left in the year. But by any measure we have severely underperformed so far this season and our ambitions of challenging for a premiership in 2017 or 2018 are under threat. We therefore need to have a thorough assessment of where it all went wrong at the end of the year to determine what we need to do to get it right next year. We just can't accept failure any longer but scapegoating any particular individual for that failure is not going to solve anything.

[AN_Inkling]

Making the top 8 was realistic if everything went right. It hasn't and that has become an impossibility no matter who was coaching. Instability of lineup, especially with a young side, makes things very difficult. You can look at the outs and say "they aren't exactly stars" but when you're forced to continually change your 22 and are not able to settle as a team, it is very hard to find the cohesion necessary to play the modern game which is not the simple fare of bygone eras.

[Dave The Man]

The last few years when we been playing Lousy the Club has pretty much said Players need to "Harden UP" that work 1st few times but getting a bit old.

Have to be more then that

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/t ... fdffddb57b

[Daniel]

The age profile of our side and the then adding Treloar, Greenwood and Howe to the mix is a good reason to suspect it would take us longer than 2016 to make the 8 as players need time to get to know how each other operate on match day.

To say we have 'severley underporformed' is remarkable given we are the only club to have used 35 players, and mainly NOT BY CHOICE.

If you look at he outs - bloody oath some are stars - Adams has become an A grader and general of our defence. Missed 3 games and will miss many more.

Fasolo - an elite medium forward by any measure.

Moore - Number 1 key forward and 2nd leading goalkicker who is much more mobile and athletic than Cloke and puts on great defensive pressure.

Swan - brownlow medallist that can turn games.

Langdon - one of the best intercept marks in the AFL.

Elliott - elite medium forward.

Howe - missed 2 games due to injury and took another 3 or so to adjust to AFL pace and our structures.

Reid missed 1 or 2?

Varcoe missed 2 games - A grader.

Sidebottom missed the first 2 and another 1 (Carlton) for being suspended.

Pendlebury played with a rib injury and has only started to come good the last 4 - 5 weeks.

Cloke can't get near it and when he does can't hit the side of a barn shed.

Treloar had no preseason.

Scharenberg can't get a clean run and is a Rolls Royce if he does.

Ramsay was critical to our backline with his run, kicking ability, speed and pressure. He is our first choice medium backman ahead of Williams and Sinclair.

In light of all of the above, how have we SEVERLEY UNDERPERFORMED and how could we POSSIBLY have done any better?

[Mugwump]

^ i agree with most pf that Daniel, though if Scharenberg is a Rolls-Royce he's awfully prone to parts faiure. And i'd like to see him on the road and cruising before I feel too confident about that.

[The Boy Who Cried Wolf]

Port had Lobbe out - their first choice ruckman.
Ryder - an elite ruckman/forward.
Jonas - their second best defender.
Homsch - their best defender.
Schultz - their second best forward.
Monfries - their best crumbling forward.
White - their best runner.

It's time to stop using injuries as an excuse for a 10 goal loss to a side outside the 8.

The reality is we only had 4 best 22 players out in Swan (he is about to retire), Adams, Fasolo and Elliot. They had more best 22 players out than us.

No, only injuries to Collingwood players count.

Who the opposition has unavailable is irrelevant.

You watch the club go in full spin mode about injuries. And the fanbois will lap it up.

Surely the club cant pull that off for 4 years in a row?!?

[The Boy Who Cried Wolf]

Ok I apologise to the bloggers who think new posters should be careful.... and I understand that sort of manners. I think the issue is far further up-line than our injury list....I am with those who are questioning Buckley's competencies as an experienced blogger posted recently.

with our massive injuries, not even jock McHale would make much diference now, we never have a settled side, never. Bucks will be judged by our performances by seasons end, not by us, the Board will take a long and hard look at him, so lest leave it there.

I always find it amusing that injuries are a valid consideration for any other team than Collingwood with all bar a few commentators and it's the same with posters it seems. Only Saturday night the Ch7 commentators were so understanding about Freo's struggles because they were missing Fyfe, Sandi and Johnson... Oh woe is me, poor buggers, they were a leading premiership contender, we're a roughy to sneak into the 8 if things go well for us.

You honestly you can't see the wood through the trees can you...

[The Boy Who Cried Wolf]

You can bet your bottom dollar that the club will spin the injury line for the remainder of the year. It's all this club does now, it should be a PR firm or a political party rather than a football club. Infact I have already received an email from a club employee (I am happy to show it to a moderator to validate it) that they will use that narrative to defend their poor performance.

Apply for head coach, I'm sure you'd do much better with our list in its current state.

Couldn't do much worse...

[58pie]

Was at the G next to the Collingwood in-house including Eddie and Pert. If that lot is running the club God help us. Didn't look perturbed at halftime and the only look of despair was from Gubby Allen who might have made the wrong move. Does anybody else think the other coaches never seem to converse with Bucks. Even in the box he doesn't seem to consult anybody else. Wholesale moves are now needed and play some kids or do the favourites just linger on. Go Pies, hope we still have some great wins to make 2017 look perhaps a little promising.

[neil]

The age profile of our side and the then adding Treloar, Greenwood and Howe to the mix is a good reason to suspect it would take us longer than 2016 to make the 8 as players need time to get to know how each other operate on match day.

To say we have 'severley underporformed' is remarkable given we are the only club to have used 35 players, and mainly NOT BY CHOICE.

If you look at he outs - bloody oath some are stars - Adams has become an A grader and general of our defence. Missed 3 games and will miss many more.

Fasolo - an elite medium forward by any measure.

Moore - Number 1 key forward and 2nd leading goalkicker who is much more mobile and athletic than Cloke and puts on great defensive pressure.

Swan - brownlow medallist that can turn games.

Langdon - one of the best intercept marks in the AFL.

Elliott - elite medium forward.

Howe - missed 2 games due to injury and took another 3 or so to adjust to AFL pace and our structures.

Reid missed 1 or 2?

Varcoe missed 2 games - A grader.

Sidebottom missed the first 2 and another 1 (Carlton) for being suspended.

Pendlebury played with a rib injury and has only started to come good the last 4 - 5 weeks.

Cloke can't get near it and when he does can't hit the side of a barn shed.

Treloar had no preseason.

Scharenberg can't get a clean run and is a Rolls Royce if he does.

Ramsay was critical to our backline with his run, kicking ability, speed and pressure. He is our first choice medium backman ahead of Williams and Sinclair.

In light of all of the above, how have we SEVERLEY UNDERPERFORMED and how could we POSSIBLY have done any better?

+1

[Member 7167]

How can we play more kids when considering the number of players who have represented the club this year. Just about everyone who is fit is getting a game.

An how the hell can injuries not be a factor in our performance. Do you honestly think we would be performing so poorly if we had our best and most talented 22 fit and in form for the full season and pre season. Even the injuries sustained by some of our younger players has had a major impact on their development and preseason preparation.

As an example do you honestly think Crocker is having equal impact to what a fit and in form Jamie Elliott would have. Is Dane Swan's replacement having as much impact?

A disappointing and frustrating year by all account but how about a bit of balance.