Yay or nay - should Britain vote to leave the EU?

[Morrigu]

Do the polls really suggest that a significant number would vote differently given a second go or is it just a real lot of noise coming from those who don't like the result?

But how can you trust the polls? How can you be sure that the response is actually true - that the person actually did vote leave and would change their vote? If I'm a pissed off remain voter who wants a second referendum I could easily say that to try and get what I want - a different result! Or I could have actually voted leave and now have changed my mind!

The petition that media have reported as having 2 mill odd signatures is interesting - obviously people sign things without actually reading them

" A House of Commons spokeswoman said the petition was created on 24 May. There were 22 signatures on it at the time the referendum result was announced.

The petition's website states it was set up by an individual called William Oliver Healey ( a leave voter) and says: "We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the Remain or Leave vote is less than 60%, based on a turnout less than 75%, there should be another referendum."

The House of Commons petitions committee said it was investigating allegations of fraud in connection with the petition and had already removed 77,000 signatories - and was monitoring it for further suspicious activity. "

25th June 2016 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu- ... m-36629324

So the referendum went ahead without the rule that the petition (with 22 signatories) called for before the vote even being discussed in the Commons let alone being put in place in - can't apply retrospective rules! So even though it will have to be debated because of the number who have signed will be a brief discussion!! If the remain voters want serious debate at least start a viable petition not just hijack this one set up by a leave voter obviously worried they wouldn't win!

One of the funniest things I've read is that there are around 39,000 signatories claiming to be Vatican City residents (population 800)

Whatever is decided some leadership and actual planning needs to happen ASAP - the current inertia is not going to help anyone IMHO.

[Tannin]

Stolen from a one-liner in another forum. Says it all.

Brexit: the people of England have decided to accept some short-term pain in exchange for some long-term pain.

[Morrigu]

What does one make of this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... er-happen/

[Mugwump]

Do the polls really suggest that a significant number would vote differently given a second go or is it just a real lot of noise coming from those who don't like the result?

A bit early to say, Stui. There have been many reports in the papers of people who are saying : "I voted 'leave' but only because I didn't think it would win and I wanted to stick two fingers up to the establishment. If I had known this, I'd have voted differently".

Whether that is a real groundswell or just a few anecdotes is hard to tell. But I think it is very possible that many people who voted leave are now looking at their children and grandchildren, and just realising that they have shut them out of an employment market with 300m people.

The polling will happen over the next few days, I presume - and if it shows a clear remain stance across the country, then the pressure will be on.

[Mugwump]

What does one make of this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... er-happen/

Yes, that is an important point. A referendum in the UK has none of the legal authority that it has in Australia. In Australia it is a formal constitutional mechanism. The Uk has no written constitution, and so this referendum is really just a grand opinion poll. That is not to say that it can be easily overturned, politically. But the way it is executed, and when, is very much up for grabs, and that tussle is just beginning.

[Mugwump]

Stolen from a one-liner in another forum. Says it all.

Brexit: the people of England have decided to accept some short-term pain in exchange for some long-term pain.

I doubt it. If a decent trade agreement can be struck with the EU, and that may occur before the exit is formalised, then the UK is a similar position to Australia, as a sovereign nation which makes and adjudicates its own laws, on its own territory, in the interests of its own people, while maintaining open trading arrangements with its neighbours. That was the original premise of the common market, and it remains a worthy objective.

I voted remain as I do not think this rupture was necessary now. However, abdicating from a project to create a US of E is not necessarily a bad thing in the long-term.

[watt price tully]

Samantha Bee on Brexit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nTrs-HuuUc

[David]

Boris Johnson is out of the running for the conservative party leadership. The only thing that seems shocking to me is that pundits thought he was such a good chance of getting it to begin with.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... rship-bids

[Jezza]

Michael Gove and Theresa May are the frontrunners for the Conservative leadership.

I'm amazed that Corbyn hasn't resigned as leader of the Labour Party, especially in light of a vote of no confidence against him.

[stui magpie]

^

I think I read somewhere that the party doesn't get to elect it's own leader, there's some BS in play about how the leader is chosen.

Any clues how it works?

[Mugwump]

[Wokko]

I like her already, a bit of The Iron Lady 2 about her. Apparently Boris was only going to get out the way if she ran.

[Jezza]

^

I think I read somewhere that the party doesn't get to elect it's own leader, there's some BS in play about how the leader is chosen.

Any clues how it works?

I know it's Wikipedia, but this might help answer your question Stui.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservat ... _procedure

[Mugwump]

I don't think she is as batty as Thatcher, Wokko, but there is certainly a testable theory here that Britain is shipwrecked by public schoolboy idiots ever thirty years or so, and sensible, practical, unromantic and hard headed women are needed to save it.

That said, I don't think this crisis is anywhere near as deep 1979. In 1979 Britain was a rustbucket destroyer going up against battleships. It needed a fierce and half-crazy revolutionary captain then, and it found one. Today we have a battleship ... But we've just put it in a tight spot, surrounded by enemy fire.

May fits the model and will do for these slightly simpler times, I think.

[stui magpie]