Things that make you go.......WTF?

[David]

You could say the same about any parent who brings a child into the world in less than ideal circumstances (financial, physical or mental healthwise, relationship status or whatever else). Old men, of course, have been having kids since time immemorial. I agree that it seems unwise, but we don't know her personal situation. Perhaps there are relatives who will help raise the child.

I'm not interested in judging individuals; whether such practices should be outlawed is another question.

[stui magpie]

Look, for most people there's never a great time to have a kid. I had mine young when I couldn't afford it but did the best I could. Nowdays it's the working class and poor who have kids young and the white collar and wealthier who have them later when they're already financially established.

No right or wrong there, each to their own.

But having a kid when you're 62 and your partner is 78.

Apart from the likely serious generation gap, mum might be quite capable of looking after a baby at 62.

Will she be able to keep up with an 8 year old at 70?

When the kid hits 14-15 and becomes a hormonal arsewipe, how will a 77 year old mum cope? Not withstanding if Dad is still kicking he'll be 92-93.

When a kid hits their 20's, most don't have a lot to do with their parents but it's nice to have someone to talk to, get advice from or just bounce things off.

This kid is likely to be orphaned in their early 20's if they don't lose dad and mum either goes to a nursing home or they have to care for her when they're in their teens.

Shit, selfish, stupid action.

[Morrigu]

^ hmmm they are so many kids often from baby age being raised by grand parents ( my mum who was 60 odd and looking forward to enjoying her retirement is one of them - even though my brother was with them she raised the brat) cause the mothers and fathers well you know...

Yes a bit different cause it wasn't a deliberate choice to have a baby but in the end the result is the same - oldies raising kids. I dunno maybe a bit tough for the kid as they grow up as people will probably assume mum is gran but if she is a good mum and the kid is loved and feels loved does that really matter?

I sorta get the burning desire for a woman to breed ( well actually I don't) cause there is definately ( still) societal judgement on women who don't have kids - you would be surprised ( or maybe you wouldn't ) how many women throw the " not a real woman" comment at you - even when they have no idea of your circumstances - quite bizarre really

When at 25 I became totally infertile I just thought - well that's that get on with it and have never felt sorry or thought I missed out ( unless my hormone implant ran out unexpectedly and then I was just scary ). I think some women just become obsessed with what they can't have - or maybe that's too harsh and I don't understand the maternal desire.

Is she anymore selfish or stupid than a young drug addicted mother who gives birth to a baby who then suffers withdrawal from birth? Or a career woman who has a baby cause that's what should be done and then shoves them in child care and has little emotional attachment or involvement?

[stui magpie]

Yeah, the cracks about "I'm a mother" are some the worst examples of women being utter biatches to other women.

I work with a whole pack of them and I'm constantly amazed at how they can backstab each other behind their backs and play mates to their face. It does my head in.

[Morrigu]

^ and that my friend is why I prefer animals

[watt price tully]

Sorry 60's & 70's is far too old. For me end of story.

[think positive]

Works both ways, I know plenty of judgemental non mothers who like to tell me how to do my job! Take one of my sisters for example! But I have respite, now she's doing it to her boyfriends ex, the mother of his two very young kids! She even threatened to go for custody! OMG I reckon I'd kidnap the poor kids and take em to Mexico! They would be better off!

Women can be so two faced! That's why I prefer animals!

As for this mum, I agree with Stui, aside from the health risks to the child, that poor kid will most likely lose a parent at a young age. You missed the boat honey, go be an adoptagrandma

I get the bit about drugo mums, and it's a crying shame when so many infertile couples who would be great parents, miss out, and a child suffers.

[Morrigu]

Sorry 60's & 70's is far too old. For me end of story.

So out of curiosity should people of this age be prevented from gaining custody and raising babies and children from family members who can't or won't care for them?

[watt price tully]

Sorry 60's & 70's is far too old. For me end of story.

So out of curiosity should people of this age be prevented from gaining custody and raising babies and children from family members who can't or won't care for them?

I think that's a far different situation. That's family & you have responsibilities as family. It's a measure of your mother's character to raise the children)

However choosing to procreate at that age is what I'm referring to (man & woman).

[Morrigu]

Sorry 60's & 70's is far too old. For me end of story.

So out of curiosity should people of this age be prevented from gaining custody and raising babies and children from family members who can't or won't care for them?

I think that's a far different situation. That's family & you have responsibilities as family. It's a measure of your mother's character to raise the children)

However choosing to procreate at that age is what I'm referring to (man & woman).

I don't know if it is right or wrong and I wasn't just referring to mum ( I wish she had just had the chance to enjoy her retirement years not have to raise another!)

But I genuinely can't see the difference - if family responsilibilty or duty or whatever you call it deems that people of this age can care for children then why should people of this age be so criticised for having one of their own

At least it their choice!

[think positive]

You would hope that in the event of the grandparent passing, the mum or dad, if not both, would step up.

I just think it's selfish. I'm no where near that age but I'm too bloody tired to be raising a baby again! And oh god, being pregnant and giving birth! My joints are screaming just thinking about it, and I'm fit!

[David]

I guess where I was going with my earlier post is, maybe having a child is always selfish, to some degree or other. And when it comes to bringing that child into less than desirable circumstances, like some of the ones mentioned above and many, many more, that potentially starts to become a thoughtless/unethical act.

(There's a South African philosopher by the name of David Benatar who argues that all procreation is unethical, but perhaps that's a little extreme. Perhaps a good one for another thread. )

I just think that everyone's situation is complex and different and I think there are too many variables to say for certain that "having a child at x age makes you a selfish bitch". If we're not going to go down the path of putting age restrictions on IVF access, then I'd just prefer to see better support and counselling structures for older parents and advising people in that situation to consider something other than a nuclear family parenting model.

[think positive]

I guess where I was going with my earlier post is, maybe having a child is always selfish, to some degree or other. And when it comes to bringing that child into less than desirable circumstances, like some of the ones mentioned above and many, many more, that potentially starts to become a thoughtless/unethical act.

(There's a South African philosopher by the name of David Benatar who argues that all procreation is unethical, but perhaps that's a little extreme. Perhaps a good one for another thread. )

I just think that everyone's situation is complex and different and I think there are too many variables to say for certain that "having a child at x age makes you a selfish bitch". If we're not going to go down the path of putting age restrictions on IVF access, then I'd just prefer to see better support and counselling structures for older parents and advising people in that situation to consider something other than a nuclear family parenting model.

All fair points. Not sure about the selfish part. The human race ends without us selfish mothers!!

(By the way, I read back, no one called her a 'selfish bitch', just that this is a selfish choice.)

I'm surprised they can get IVF, I thought it was at least partly subsidised, I would have thought there was a cut off point. I just don't think they have thought it through from the kids point of view very well.

[think positive]

maybe this should be in the sad thread

imagine if you thought this was your best option

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/fbi ... ar-BBv3b2P

[think positive]

not sure what going on around here.

I was out the front with a guy looking at a car, and 2 cop cars pull up and park round the corner, (right behind juniors car which I had just parked there!!). I make a toilet excuse, bolt upstairs to daughters room for a gig, and tell her keep watching!! there is a feral family with bikes, red neck trucks and a free range pitbull at the end of the street, and that's where they headed, 6 of them all in full protective gear. (apart from the bike noise, they have never given us any grief, but I cant imagine living next door!!)
so we go for a test drive, and there is more cop cars around the next corner, on the main drag, vans taking pics, highway patrol, and flashing lights of someone getting pulled over.

drive down the highway, 2 more divvy vans!! when we got back, saw another guy (friends 40 yr old son!) getting pulled over. got home and the cars are gone. she said it took a while but they finally got someone to answer, and came out with a guy in cuffs. hmmm I wonder!

so then after I sell the car, I go to get juniors car. I hop in, (its just across the road and 1 house up from feral town) start the car, and the back door opens. OMFG I may kill my eldest daughter! I was shaking for a good half hour. my rant was interesting though!! "don't you watch CSI? criminal minds? are you trying to kill me??"

so yeah, if anyone is lost over this way today, watch out for the boys in blue! they are everywhere!!