Post match. Gallant Pies pipped in thriller. All comments.

[jackcass]

"John Wren"] bolded part suggests you misunderstand some of what is asked of the role he played.

whilst marley did have the odd errant kick it's no worse than when sidey gets too cute and fails to kick to a target.

Marley got 16 possesions while Steely had 33 so I don't see you angle John.
Were you at the game? Marley was dropped a few weeks back and was lucky to retain his spot. Would you ever drop Steely? Has speed , decides quickly and Marley on the other hand hesitated and then popped it up. Not in the same class. Marley is lucky to be on list after his indiscretion. A move might help him as it has helped Heater. Go GWS in the 2016 (maybe one ex pie can stop a 4 repeat) and Pies in 2017

Sidebottom is in his 8th season, a 1st round draft pick, a highly regarded midfielder, a regular senior player with over 160 games under his belt. Williams is in his 4th year, a rookie draft pick, a developing defender, has struggled the whole season with injury and form and has only played 60 odd games.[/quote

Grab a dictionary and look up the definition of developing. Once you have done that you will never use that word, and Williams, in the same sentence again.

Happy to consider anyone with under 100 games as developing.

[5 from the wing on debut]

We watched the same game but some of us find it very hard to accept such basic errors. No-one will question Marley's run or endeavour but there is a very good reason why he was such a low pick. His decision making is abysmal, especially when the pressure is on. He has been given sufficient opportunity and has not improved that aspect of his game at all. The likelihood is that he never will. The Pies will never be successful whilst the butcher of the backline is a member of the team.

I haven't ever suggested that I'm happy with errors but I'm yet to see a player in any team in any era who has been perfect with every ball use and to walk away from that effort and nit-pick 1 or 2 players for specific errors as though they were the difference in the result is just plain wrong.

When you said that Marley was very good today that tends to indicate that you are happy with errors. If he was very good today I would hate to see what he does when he has a shocker.

And as for nit picking ? And what effort are you talking about? The one where they lost a game they should have won. Again. Commenting upon a player gifting goals to the opposition is not nit picking, it is stating the blindingly obvious. Unless you are wearing rose coloured glasses.

[RudeBoy]

I doubt Marley will be with us next year. Once Scharenberg, Ramsay, Langdon and Sinclair return, he wouldn't get a game.

[STOKA35]

Scores from turnovers killed us like to see that stat

[jackcass]

Options is a different discussion. Even by the standards Williams has set earlier in his career you'd say he's had an ordinary season. Time will tell if he's a Pie in 2017 or if he can recapture that early career form but I'm certainly not going to write him off just yet.

[inxs88]

We watched the same game but some of us find it very hard to accept such basic errors. No-one will question Marley's run or endeavour but there is a very good reason why he was such a low pick. His decision making is abysmal, especially when the pressure is on. He has been given sufficient opportunity and has not improved that aspect of his game at all. The likelihood is that he never will. The Pies will never be successful whilst the butcher of the backline is a member of the team.

I haven't ever suggested that I'm happy with errors but I'm yet to see a player in any team in any era who has been perfect with every ball use and to walk away from that effort and nit-pick 1 or 2 players for specific errors as though they were the difference in the result is just plain wrong.

You are the "public defender" of errors, the "clergy confessional ear" of errors, the "sympathiser of errors" the "Mr Tolerance" of errors.

[inxs88]

So Macaffer and Robbie Tarrant are still developing??

[Mugwump]

Someone mentioned earlier today that Williams was part of the reason we got back into the game in the last quarter. I was sceptical but after watching the replay i can see what they mean. he is a mix of very good and bad. Perhaps he just needs a better pre-season to become the player he should be.

[Raw Hammer]

People seem SO used to our schoolboy errors that they accept the odd three or four dumb D50 decisions that cost us goals. Watch the top teams, no seriously, do it, watch how they rarely kick to an opposition player inside D50 resulting in a goal, then comment on our 'effort'. It's simply unacceptable if we are to be a top team again. That SH!T needs to be eradicated! It's not normal. It's JUNK. The skill errors of Brown, Williams, Marsh...these are not normal and are not a part of modern football. They're the exceptions to the rule, especially for premiership contenders. This is 2016-17. Not the '90s where you could just smash it in the boot to a one on one. Football has 'evolved' to today's game, we must adapt, or die. Effort doesn't cut it anymore. Skill us effort is required.

[qldmagpie67]

Cold light of day brings a new perspective
I was absolutely gutted last night thinking of what could or should have been but after watching the game on IQ again and being able to rewind and look at things over again things become clearer
Our turnovers cost us each and every time from Williams shit kick to Smith intercepted and goals against us to Sidey 3 dinky kicks not covering 20m and turning over the ball (2 of which went to score a goal and a behind and one he managed to chase down the ball interceptor) to Treloar not being able to hit a target when he's running full pelt to Browns brain fart of hitting straight down Lewis's throat
I can forgive young players with less than 50 games every day of the week but errors from experienced players and serial offenders just irk me to no end
Yes no ones perfect but this isn't a one off for any of those mentioned above this is a week in week out habit.
Seriously for all Williams run and carry and effort that is out weighed by his terrible disposal each and every time. Sidey gets 33 but 50% aren't doing any damage and there's those dinky kicks each and every week that invariably cost us gaols. Treloar gets loads of it and his run and carry through the middle opens the game up but it's pointless when he then miscues or bombs away to a 2 on 1 contest or misses the target altogether and it gets turned over. Brown can't kick over a jam tin and he just makes so many bad decisions by not leaving his man or worse being caught between to opponents not making a choice to either go or stay.
Ok enough of the negatives
Losing Aish hurt us we could have done with his run and the extra interchange for sure. At the end of the day the thing that cost us most was experience or lack there of. Little things like over playing our attacking raids leaving Hawks free out the back. Maynard run up field a few times supporting our ball movement but then a errant kick or handball and bang it goes the other way and bingo there is a hawk free out the back.
Can't for one second knock his desire but at times our kids need to learn staying on there man is equally important.
Geez our skipper is a beaut dead set all over the ground he just turns up when needed and 95 times out of 100 makes the best decision.
White showed again today he can be good he just needs to bring that every week.
One thing become crystal clear today Cloke needs to stay and play next season. He takes away there best defender leaving space for a White or DeGoey or someone to get free. There was at least 8 times when a hawk defender went to help Frawley on Cloke and that in turn let one of our forwards get to a dangerous spot and often hit the score board.
With Cloke getting the number 1 defender that leaves either White or Moore getting the 3rd defender who they can exploit. Moore isn't capable yet of being the go to guy and White couldn't handle the best defender but as a trio they could reap rewards. And that doesn't take into account Fasalo or Elliott or DeGoey or Crocker being dangerous
Things aren't as grim as they seem really.
Next season hopefully Scharenberg Ramsay Langdon Elliott all get back to full fitness and can show case there talents.
Finally the biggest plus this season for mine was Grundy.
Since the bye he's been nothing short of fantastic. He's given us a even share if the ball at the contests and his second and third efforts and ability to get around the ground is dynamic. I reckon he did enough to finish top 3 in the Copeland behind Treloar and Pendles and that's nothing to sneeze at for a big man.
2017 can't come quick enough for me but we've got the draft and trade period to see what we can add to this group and then load up on skill training in the off season and hit 2017 with everything we've got

[Culprit]

Agree with with and when we had the Hawks under pressure we zoned off and allowed them to pass with ease which set up multiple goals.

[think positive]

I don't. That kick to Smith was going to hit Smith on the chest, maybe it was a little slow, but it was accurate. And Smith, in the defensive forward stood and waited for it. There was another player next to smith and both of them allowed the intercept. All Smith had to do was step forward to get the pass. He didn't. That's not Marleys fault.

[Presti35]

Dont know how true this is, but theres a bit of word that Jean Claude Van Damme was at the game?

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

I don't. That kick to Smith was going to hit Smith on the chest, maybe it was a little slow, but it was accurate. And Smith, in the defensive forward stood and waited for it. There was another player next to smith and both of them allowed the intercept. All Smith had to do was step forward to get the pass. He didn't. That's not Marleys fault.

Funny we complain about not winning and line it up against the coach and the admin and then go all lenient on the players, who in the extreme moment of the contest, commit elementary skill errors which cost us the game. It's a team sport so I don't want to blame individual players, but find it strange you want to blame it on the receiver when it was the guy with the ball executing the kick who coughed it up with a poorly executed kick. Contrast that to the other extreme where Treloar created a goal out of nowhere to give us the lead. Another moment where the anguished look on Treloar's face standing next to a teammate who had just given away a silly free kick, showed you how much Treloar wanted us to win the game. As another pointed out, errors occur all over the field all the time, but when scores are level with a minute to go, it's that last error (turnover) that loses you the game.

[5 from the wing on debut]

Someone mentioned earlier today that Williams was part of the reason we got back into the game in the last quarter. I was sceptical but after watching the replay i can see what they mean. he is a mix of very good and bad. Perhaps he just needs a better pre-season to become the player he should be.

I commented earlier that Williams' run and effort cannot be questioned, but that it was his decision making that was his continual downfall. A few weeks ago I was watching a junior match (different sport) and talking to a very experienced coach. As there were some very talented players that made some very poor decisions, I asked him whether he thought those players would go on and be successful at the top level. His blunt answer was no, as they just didn't have a high enough sporting IQ, and that would not change as they aged. I would dearly love to be proved wrong on that score by Williams, but the probability of it is not high.