Happy Australia Day!

[Mugwump]

[stui magpie]

But the Right ...........

[Morrigu]

^ What the hell is it with you numpties who seriously drivel on with academic arguments and categorise everything as left or right

I seriously doubt any of you have even met an indigenious Australian let alone spent any time with them and their communities especially remote communities cause they sure as hell aren't the people on social media agitating - how about you take their feelings and thoughts into consideration whilst making your broad sweeping motherhood statements and what " you would be OK with"

[Dave The Man]

^ What the hell is it with you numpties who seriously drivel on with academic arguments and categorise everything as left or right

I seriously doubt any of you have even met an indigenious Australian let alone spent any time with them and their communities especially remote communities cause they sure as hell aren't the people on social media agitating - how about you take their feelings and thoughts into consideration whilst making your broad sweeping motherhood statements and what " you would be OK with"

So I guess you know what the Indigenious Australian Think and what they want.

Would you then Please Share this With Us

[Morrigu]

^ no Dave I am not presumptuous enough to think I know what such a diverse group of people think and want!

But what my personal experience with many - not all - tells me is that Australia Day on Jan 26th is associated with much pain and sorrow and given the date has been changed so many times over the years there is no reason to have an alternative date that would allow ALL Australians to celebrate and to disregard that option is just stubborn and based on the wants and desires of those who don't want it changed for whatever reason!

[stui magpie]

^ What the hell is it with you numpties who seriously drivel on with academic arguments and categorise everything as left or right

I seriously doubt any of you have even met an indigenious Australian let alone spent any time with them and their communities especially remote communities cause they sure as hell aren't the people on social media agitating - how about you take their feelings and thoughts into consideration whilst making your broad sweeping motherhood statements and what " you would be OK with"

Just FWIW, I've met several Indigenous Australians over the years, worked closely with a couple, interviewed with some for an Aboriginal Liaison officer.

I've never been to the remote communities (unless you count Port Douglas, the Aboriginal bloke I was drinking with there was a damn good guitarist) so I'll more than happily concede experience there.

I also don't pretend to speak on their behalf. I can't and I won't, I just give my opinion.

[Morrigu]

^ I need to type faster sometimes post appear in between ^ !

[Mugwump]

^ What the hell is it with you numpties who seriously drivel on with academic arguments and categorise everything as left or right

I seriously doubt any of you have even met an indigenious Australian let alone spent any time with them and their communities especially remote communities cause they sure as hell aren't the people on social media agitating - how about you take their feelings and thoughts into consideration whilst making your broad sweeping motherhood statements and what " you would be OK with"

If you don't like the argument, don't read it. Someone who argues something that you are not interested in is not a "numpty". Since others respect your animal rights stuff without name-calling, it might be best to do others the same courtesy.

"What I am ok with" is a way of saying that I would accept a point in argument. I don't think I need to spend five years in an indigenous settlement to decide that, thanks.

[Morrigu]

^ Yeah of course they do

You don't even live here and haven't for a long time - sorry but you have no idea what indingeous Australians who aren't putting their opinion out there on social media think or feel - what you accept as an argument is totally irrelevant - cause you have no actual experience, interaction or understanding except what you " read" and your argument is based on what you perceive " lefties" and " noisy pressure groups" are putting out there - shallow and ill informed!

I genuinely have no interest in Australia Day - the English and their descendants seem to be over invested - but I know that it is a sad and painful day for many indigenous people - so just change it - it's been changed many many many times before so what's the problem?

[Mugwump]

^ on the topic, Morrigu, I do not have much direct experience with aboriginal Australians, for fairly obvious reasons. I know that they have feelings against 26th Jan and these feelings are understandable. The point is whether we accept that these feelings are a reason to rewrite our history and the way we make sense of it.

The other point is that changes like this have wider consequences. It is not just about this particular date. That too is worth discussing.

[Mugwump]

^ Yeah of course they do

You don't even live here and haven't for a long time - sorry but you have no idea what indingeous Australians who aren't putting their opinion out there on social media think or feel - what you accept as an argument is totally irrelevant - cause you have no actual experience, interaction or understanding except what you " read" and your argument is based on what you perceive " lefties" and " noisy pressure groups" are putting out there - shallow and ill informed!
?

Sorry, but I'm as much of an Australian citizen as you are, and I was born and raised there, I visit regularly, and I'll die there. I also pay taxes there. So I think i have the right to form and express views on any matter that touches Australia and I do not accept that one has to achieve immersion to form a view. . If you think that you have the only monopoly of true "informed" or "non-shallow" opinion on this topic because you have had more interaction with some aboriginal people, I think you're wrong. I like you and usually agree with you, but in this instance I have a different view (as do 86% of Australians, as I think I read above). My reasons matter to me, yours matter to you. I don't see much value in name-calling and eye-rolling about that.

[Morrigu]

^ Ok I apologise I didn't ( and don't) use numpties as a term of idiocy ( I have better terms) it's a phrase I use in general terms without any great disrespect so sorry - but seriously the " left" " right" argument is a WTF for me.

I most certainly do not think I have or know the " one truth" and would never presume to speak for the diverse indigenous population but I do think that eye rolling is necessary as I just don't think anyone seems actually interested in the thoughts or feelings of those indigenous folk without a social media platform and that is a lot of folk!

I don't know where the supposed 86% comes from - I work at a large Public Health Service - no-one I know doesn't support a change of date, all of my family including my 80y old Ma support a change of date, all of my hubby's family support a change of date, all of our mutual friends support a change of date - so?

[Mugwump]

^ fair enough, mate. In all honesty, when people like you think it is time to change the date it moves me a bit. (Just a bit

The third page of the Independent (it's not really) newspaper in the U.K. today showed a group of people holding a big aboriginal flag saying "you are on stolen land", and "always was, always will be, aboriginal land". That's the stuff that takes us to a very nasty place. They're the people I want to resist.

[Morrigu]

^ what we need to do is put aside the " professional agitators " on both sides of the argument and look at it in terms of what it means to all people of this great land.

It is a genuinely distressing and painful day for many indigenous people and it hasn't always been the day we have chosen to celebrate - the date has changed many many times so why is there such a determined desire to have it the date it is now?

I've seen a lot of comment - "Let's change the date to May 8, maaaaate" I like that it is so bloody Aussie

We could all do that and celebrate together!

[David]