Post Match. Tigers def. Pies - All comments please

[PyreneesPie]

Sorry, I totally disagree

A LOT more needs to be said

We've had poor skill errors, deficiencies in our forward and back line structure since the mid point of 2012, we've had fitness/injury issues all the way through, we've kicked two putrid scores, we've taken a dynasty and driven it into the ditch, and if the best that is served up is ANOTHER 10 win season (which looks like a miracle right now) then he's gone...

I've more than given up on this "succession plan" - 6 years of nothing...absolutely nothing...

A dynasty???? Really??? A bit of wishful thinking there I believe. All it took was for other teams to effectively counter the round the boundary game plan and that was the end of our time in the sun.

[mooretreloar]

Back from the game and I haven't been as disappointed after a game for a long time.

The first half from both sides was horrible football. The skill level and decision making was as bad as I ever seen from 2 AFL sides.

For the second week in a row we cost ourselves the game by a) missing gimme shots at goal (four to five goals) and b) gifting Richmond goals through skill errors and terrible decision making (four to five goals). We lost by 19 points.

The Mayne miss after the sensational tackle on Rance in the 3rd quarter was the game changer. He kicks that goal from 15 metres out, we go 17 points up with all the momentum. He missed and they score the next two goals and the momentum was with them.

We struggled to run the game out following the six day break and a very physical and tough game against the Dogs. Whereas, the Tigers were coming off a 7 day break and an easy game on the body against the Blues.

In saying all that we should be beating Richmond no matter the circumstances.

This loss is not on Buckley, but on the players, who are professional athletes and are paid very well to do their job. However, I am not surprised on here that it is again all Buckley's fault. As I have said many times on this forum, coaches get too much credit when their team is winning and too much blame when their team is losing.

The players did not do their job properly tonight. They should be able to execute basic skills of kicking, handballing and decision making. They failed in all three elements tonight and a loss was the result. There was nothing wrong with game plan, but the execution by the players was 2 out of 10.

In conclusion, Jarryd Blair cannot play another game for the Collingwood Football Club. He has been a great servant, but the game has passed him by and I am sick and tired of playing 21 v 22 each week. We need to blood a youngster to take his place, as the youngster is the future of the club and Blair is not.

He should get a lot of blame, we've been losing the same way for 5 seasons and 2 games...

Sorry mate, that is not even close to being correct. But, you are entitled to your opinion.

[The_Staunton]

And I'll keep it respectful, but in summation - we lost in 2012 to turnovers being seized upon by Hawthorn, who went coast to coast and smashed us. We lost in 2015 to Hawthorn, Freo and Sydney (among others) due to poor skills and missed shots at goal in "brave" efforts, we've lost to Port last year due to consistent out the back goals...

Similar pattern - the bad teams in this league don't get beat by 150 points. They lose due to bad skills, turnovers, missed shots and poor structure. It's time and time and time again...

And that starts with one man paid a million dollars to fix things who isn't doing his job...

[mooretreloar]

Back from the game and I haven't been as disappointed after a game for a long time.

The first half from both sides was horrible football. The skill level and decision making was as bad as I ever seen from 2 AFL sides.

For the second week in a row we cost ourselves the game by a) missing gimme shots at goal (four to five goals) and b) gifting Richmond goals through skill errors and terrible decision making (four to five goals). We lost by 19 points.

The Mayne miss after the sensational tackle on Rance in the 3rd quarter was the game changer. He kicks that goal from 15 metres out, we go 17 points up with all the momentum. He missed and they score the next two goals and the momentum was with them.

We struggled to run the game out following the six day break and a very physical and tough game against the Dogs. Whereas, the Tigers were coming off a 7 day break and an easy game on the body against the Blues.

In saying all that we should be beating Richmond no matter the circumstances.

This loss is not on Buckley, but on the players, who are professional athletes and are paid very well to do their job. However, I am not surprised on here that it is again all Buckley's fault. As I have said many times on this forum, coaches get too much credit when their team is winning and too much blame when their team is losing.

The players did not do their job properly tonight. They should be able to execute basic skills of kicking, handballing and decision making. They failed in all three elements tonight and a loss was the result. There was nothing wrong with game plan, but the execution by the players was 2 out of 10.

In conclusion, Jarryd Blair cannot play another game for the Collingwood Football Club. He has been a great servant, but the game has passed him by and I am sick and tired of playing 21 v 22 each week. We need to blood a youngster to take his place, as the youngster is the future of the club and Blair is not.

He should get a lot of blame, we've been losing the same way for 5 seasons and 2 games...

Sorry mate, that is not even close to being correct. However, you are entitled to your opinion, but it would be good if you backed up your opinion with the reasons he was to blame for tonight's loss, rather than taking the easy way out with a generic statement. What did he to make him solely responsible for the loss? What moves did he not make? What moves did he make that were wrong? Which kick, handball or decision on field did he fail to execute to required level?

[The_Staunton]

Also, it's not fair to say "solely", I didn't say that...

But he must, MUST take a lot of the blame

[bally12]

This is going to be my last rant on kicking. Of all Buck's perceived failings, the one that I hold him fully responsible for is not having the ability to identify or teach players basic skills. You can talk about grunt and shape, and formations, and rolling zone defences, till the cows come home. If we are not able to see what a good kicking action looks like with the naked eye, and fix our kicking skills, then just pack it all up and go home.

Put the stats away. We're not playing with any confidence. The reason we are not playing with confidence is because we have 1/3 of our team that can't kick. We cannot trust our teammates, and therefore don't take the game on, take risks, nor go through the middle with speed.

When I say they can't kick, I mean they have flawed techniques that should have been identified a long time ago, or they should never have been recruited in the first place.

The following players from tonight's match cannot kick:

Dary Moore - no kicking power, or penetration...from a complete lack of timing. Does some weird manufactured shit with this hand actions on set shots. Sorry folks, but he's not going to be the footbaler we'd hoped for. He's actually not a naturally talented footballer...more an athlete. If you doubt this, ask him to do a torp. I bet it would look ugly. Contrast to A.Rocca. I know who'd I'd rather have.

Brayden Maynard - strong leg but has absolutely no hand/leg coordination in his ball drop. A bit worried he's not developing any awareness in traffic.

Jesse White - might have been good...in another sport.

Jarrod Blair - f**8##rk me, how does he get a game? The ball is too big for his hands. You know the buzz that comes from the crowd when a dangerous player is in the vicinity of the ball, the opposition is super worried about that player and panics, and something comes out of nothing? With Blair it's the opposite...if he's in the vicinity of the ball, it all goes to shit.

Taylor Adams - I tried to talk myself into that he was a footballer. I tried but I know in deep down he's a spud who can't kick.

Chris Mayne - geeeezzzzus. His miss from 15m out after that tackle just killed our whole team. He really really cannot kick. His ball drop is atrocious. I can't see him fixing it. Don't believe the commentators when they say he used to be the best set shot. It's bs. Worse trade since Gary Shaw.

Henry Schade - another nervous kick due to bad technique. Not sure about his rebounding capability. Dunne should have his place in the side for now. At least Dunne's a good kick, and likes to take the game on.

For the record, these are the other players on our list that can't kick.

Josh Thomas - not sure what he gives us.
Greenwood - a pity, because the rest of his game is good.
Keeffe - not that bad for a big man, but not a natural footballer. Soccer player..says it all.
Crocker - saw a few of his kicks last year, and apart from poor technique, can't kick 50m.
Oxley - takes 5 secs to think about, then actually kick the thing with a 2-handed drop, and turn it over.
Cox - someone tell him he needs to kick through the ball, not do dinky chip kicks at goal.

I haven't seen some of the new recruits so can't comment on them yet.

So why are we such a dumb club? Is it so hard to see how important kicking is in the modern game? What's wrong with our recruiters? I've grown up with this game. Played it and watched it from 5yo. I've done a lot of sports, and been coached in a few of them as well. Kicking an Aussie rules footy is an athletic action unique to our game. I can see a nice, natural kicking action from 150m away. In the same way I can see a flawed action. Above all, I want to watch natural footballers play, not athletes. Sometimes I'd love to hear what these so called coaches actually talk about inside their meeting rooms. Can they not see the forest for the trees?

Sorry to be so negative. I love this club but tonight hurts. Pendles is an amazing football player and worth the price of admission alone. He is so much better than our next-best player it's ridiculous. I liked Broomy's running, even though he didn't get a lot of it. Hope he can get a good run at it from now on. Grundy was awesome, and Treloar was indeed worth 2 first round picks. WHE is looking great. Howe has been fanastic for us at half-back. Cmon Pies. We are an almost side at the moment. The talent is mostly there. Let's get smarter as a football club and become the club we should be.

[MarkOSuv]

The coach implements a game plan that uses the strength of his list and minimises the weakness of it.

When you see a poorly skilled defensive unit unable to clear the ball from defence by switching the ball into the corridor, it shows you that the coach is unable to coach to these weaknesses because he exposes it even more.

[The_Staunton]

Sorry, I totally disagree

A LOT more needs to be said

We've had poor skill errors, deficiencies in our forward and back line structure since the mid point of 2012, we've had fitness/injury issues all the way through, we've kicked two putrid scores, we've taken a dynasty and driven it into the ditch, and if the best that is served up is ANOTHER 10 win season (which looks like a miracle right now) then he's gone...

I've more than given up on this "succession plan" - 6 years of nothing...absolutely nothing...

A dynasty???? Really??? A bit of wishful thinking there I believe. All it took was for other teams to effectively counter the round the boundary game plan and that was the end of our time in the sun.

There was enough talent there to continue contending for 2-3 seasons without THIS...

[mooretreloar]

^^
I understand where you are coming from, but he can't be blamed for Mayne missing a shot from 15 metres out directly in front. Nor, can he be blamed for Goldsack making a skill error in the third quarter from the kick out gifting them a goal. He can't be blamed for Hoskin-Elliott shanking a kick across ground in the second quarter resulting in the ball going up the other end and Cotchin goaling.

On game day the coach has very minimal impact on the result of the game.

[The_Staunton]

^^
I understand where you are coming from, but he can't be blamed for Mayne missing a shot from 15 metres out directly in front. Nor, can he be blamed for Goldsack making a skill error in the third quarter from the kick out gifting them a goal. He can't be blamed for Hoskin-Elliott shanking a kick across ground in the second quarter resulting in the ball going up the other end and Cotchin goaling.

On game day the coach has very minimal impact on the result of the game.

And I know where you are coming from, but particularly with the coast-to-coast goals, the defensive structure, the overcrowded forward line and I'd even say the selection of said players in the first place falls on the coach

We have had a structural issue every single year - that's where the coach is to blame. The Bulldogs in the space of two seasons with an inspired coaching appointment went from a bland, boring team to Premiers. You are right, it's not Nathan Buckleys fault Chris Mayne missed from 15, that's why I didn't say "solely" - but there's a lot that is his fault, and if you keep losing the same way over and over, it's time for change.

[mooretreloar]

Agree re selection, unsure why Bucks and the selection committee continue to persist with Blair.

A lot of the coast to coast goals are actually a direct result of our skill errors. We turn the ball over too often in dangerous positions, which are extremely hard to defend on the rebound.

The forward line structure is a work in progress, as the players up there have played so few games together and will continue to be until we get the right mix and then the cohesion.

[Jezza]

Feeling very despondent after being very hopeful that this year would be the year we would reverse our downward trajectory and everything would start to come together after a few down years, but it feels like nothing has changed whatsoever, and arguably it's only got worse based on what I saw tonight!

It's been the same theme under the Buckley era for the last few years. I couldn't believe how poor our skill level was even when we were in good positions to do some damage on the scoreboard.

We made Richmond look like millionaires, yet they're a bottom 10 side as well. Constant turnovers, no sense of awareness of what to do with ball in hand and the constant themes of being killed on the rebound and having poor delivery into the forward line continue to come back to bite us.

Members/supporters are entitled to be angry tonight. The club has let them down immensely after many promises and being willing to give the club the benefit of the doubt on various concerns they may have already had, ranging from the coaches to specific players or tactics for example.

I'm actually fearful of how the season will turn out. In the long run it might be good thing for us and maybe this is just post-match ranting, but I actually can't see us winning a match until round 7 so the prospect of that happening is frightening and that's why tonight's match was so crucial for our season ahead because the fixture doesn't get any easier for us in the weeks ahead.

There were only a few positives amongst that horrific performance. Namely, Grundy was absolutely outstanding in the ruck. We need to re-sign him if it's possible, because ruckman are so hard to find as it is in this day and age. Hoskin-Elliott was another shining light on a miserable night, and Treloar and Pendles had their good moments.

Very disappointed, and massively letdown. I expected so much more, and we delivered nothing in the end. I don't remember much of the Tony Shaw era as I was too young to bear the brunt of it, so this is really difficult to contemplate at the moment.

We'll just need to roll with the punches unfortunately and see where the club is heading under Buckley or someone else, because we've invested too much time in him to go back now when we were in a decent state.

[The_Staunton]

^^
I understand where you are coming from, but he can't be blamed for Mayne missing a shot from 15 metres out directly in front. Nor, can he be blamed for Goldsack making a skill error in the third quarter from the kick out gifting them a goal. He can't be blamed for Hoskin-Elliott shanking a kick across ground in the second quarter resulting in the ball going up the other end and Cotchin goaling.

On game day the coach has very minimal impact on the result of the game.

And I know where you are coming from, but particularly with the coast-to-coast goals, the defensive structure, the overcrowded forward line and I'd even say the selection of said players in the first place falls on the coach

We have had a structural issue every single year - that's where the coach is to blame. The Bulldogs in the space of two seasons with an inspired coaching appointment went from a bland, boring team to Premiers. You are right, it's not Nathan Buckleys fault Chris Mayne missed from 15, that's why I didn't say "solely" - but there's a lot that is his fault, and if you keep losing the same way over and over, it's time for change.

Agree re selection, unsure why Bucks and the selection committee continue to persist with Blair.

A lot of the coast to coast goals are actually a direct result of our skill errors. We turn the ball over too often in dangerous positions, which are extremely hard to defend on the rebound.

The forward line structure is a work in progress, as the players up there have played so few games together and will continue to be until we get the right mix and then the cohesion.

And trust me when I say, while pardon the pun, the buck stops with you know who, I am not saying "solely" this is his fault - recruiting, assistant coaches, fitness staff (ESPECIALLY fitness staff) - this is where the changes need to be.

The first line of any revamp - whether you back Bucks or not - is the simple Hawthorn rule. Can't kick, can't play...

Like I said, the difference between the good teams and the bad isn't like it was in the 80s - even Carlton can keep most losses to 30-40 points. The difference is coaching, skills, taking your chances...the same things you could say from 2014 onwards...

[Jezza]

Massive letdown. Our skill level is horrifically bad.

Looks like it's going to be another long year ahead

Most knew that going in with the same hierarchy in control.

Buckley officially couldn't coach two years ago but here we are two years later wasting further opportunities and disheartening the majority of the supporter base (those that no longer think the sun shines out of Buckley and McGuires respective arseholes) with yet another absolute waste of a year and sub par and inept effort.

When will this nightmare end?

I understand the sentiment Flashman, and I'm inclined to agree with you on the coach in many aspects.

I think supporters have been hoping that the club's faith in Buckley would be reciprocated and we'd finally see the results we've been pining for, hence why many (rightly or wrongly) have been getting behind him to succeed for many years.

It's a sad state of affairs one way or another, but inevitably tough decisions will have to be made at some point in the near future. Nothing seems to have changed despite the best intentions.

[Number 35]

Yes. We are in trouble. Yes there is confusion and doubt in the air.

Yes. To a mind that tunes in and tunes off from game to game and socially chats footy. And yes to a mind that recycles the bulldust that David King says in the "war room" about Collingwood. Lets me remind you this is a Man who picked Collingwood for a flag with Lynch Young and Russel part of the 18. *Tisk*

To a mind that lives, eats, shits and breathes footy and doesnt get paid to heighten and build drama for the armchair viewers. It is a different outlook. Much different.

The Collingwood you see now is sitting around 60% strength based on my calculations both for Player and Position. For instance, "Boskin Hoskin" who has been deployed as a Wingman. A simple switch like Hoskin moving deep into the forward line as he is capable of kicking 2-5 goals a game, and Blair being omitted for De Goey can boost us up 5% in overall team strength.

Our realistic aim now Side-by-Side is to reach Half way point of the season with around a 50% win rate. Meaning we will be sitting at 6-6, all the while building our Team Strength indicator.

-Once the depth weaklings have their spots taken
( shadySchade horribleRamsay sickeningBlair PhillipsTheghost snapandhopeAish and 2small4defenseSmith )
-And they are replaced with proper players in ( Elliot Wells Greenwood DeGoey Dunn Langdon Scharenberg or Thomas )
-With the possibilty of finding some Magic and steel from VFL in (Keefe Mcarthy Daicos Brown or Kirby)

Then hopefully we can be sitting at 90-100% strength at midway point, looking something like this :

B- Maynard Dunn Howe
HB- Langdon Reid Moore
C- Varcoe Adams Wells
HF- Steele White Fasolo
F- Elliot Mayne Hoskin
Foll Grundy Pendles Treloar
Int: Daicos DeGoey Goldsack Greenwood

I want to see this team above come together
- Langdon offers a cool-head down back
- Dunns kicking ability will be important ( he has the ability to drive defence into attack ) and will be covered by Howe/Moore/Reid intercept ability
-Maynards toughness has him in, he will improve
-Moore can be a revelation hopefully down back and complement Howe and Reid, he also has a good pass
- Varcoe and Wells on the wings is a mouthwatering combination
- DeGoey Greenwood Daicos and Steele going threw midfield instead of Phillips Blair Crisp and Aish
- Goldscak and Mayne sharing the Manic Full Foward role to help maintain F50 pressure

This is a team that "IF" it comes together "Fingers Crossed" Could and most likely will go on a Big winning streak second half of the season. Once a we get the boys back and some momentum a lot of these games look very winnable, hopefully we will be 6-6 or at least 5-7
R14- Port Adelaide @ the G
R15- Hawthorn @ the G
R16- Essendon @ the G
R17- Gold Coast away
R18- West Coast @ Etihad
R19- Adelaide @ the G
R20- North @ Etihad
R21- Port Adelaide away
R22- Geelong @ the G
R23- Melbourne @ the G

We have a very potentially potent team do not be mistaken!! Shame it has misfired the last 2 weeks but together they will head to Sydney and Soon things will appear to be better, even if we lose to Swans, with Wells Greenwood and Elliot hopefully in by the time we play STK and maybe another suprise or two ill be confident to beat sainters bombers cats and blues setting up a Huge Showdown with the Giants.

FINALLY, and MOST importantly.
Last year was worse. Things will change. Loosing to Saints and Blues early destroyed us last season and the loss to Port at the G by 10goals. We have plenty of Fight left and Momentum shifts. We improved drastically in the second half of the season last year. And I have a strong feeling it will be the same this year, hopefully driving us into the finals as a Dangerous Darkhorse ready to wage War at the G.... I promise by the time we get to the end of Anzac Day. Each and everyone of you will see the LIGHT in the BLACK and WHITE....

P.S. Boskin Hoskin. The definition of the term Boskin is "Man of the Woods". He is the future of our Foward line, i have seen enough and Boskin and Co. will Storm Collingwood into the Finals this year.

With or Without Buckey.
As the year 20(17) maybe Scott Burns year

Remember the crazy mans words