Terror attacks by Islamist groups

[stui magpie]

[Mugwump]

^ The need of some to feel simplistically virtuous triumphs easily over the deaths of strangers, Stui. If 9/11, Madrid 2004 and London 2005 were too subtle for Swedish and German politicians to grasp, then new politicians are needed in those countries. Unfortunately, it may be too late.

[David]

[HAL]

Yes I think there are.

[Pies4shaw]

[Pi]

this might be a bit closer to what the Swedish PM actually said,

https://www.thelocal.se/20170409/stockh ... low-swedes

The reality is he has an entrenched government bureaucracy and a dominant political narrative that is unlikely to change too much, in the short term.

[Mugwump]

^^ I had not realized that Greeks and Tongan immigrants have a significant history of mass murder, sympathy for the murder of literary heretics, pan-national support for an Umma, and integration difficulties across the western world. If they do, then we may have to look beyond Greece and Tonga for the future of our utterly essential mass immigration project, I guess. There are lots of horribly poor people in India and Kenya who do not seem even slightly sympathetic to those who want to kill us en masse. Let's talk to them rather than the Greeks and Tongans.

[Pies4shaw]

Whatever that means.

Of course, what the article suggests is a part of the political narrative that the right is embarrassed by - immigration controls (like many elements of the "intelligence" services) simply don't work.

Here's another guy whose application for residency seems to have been rejected - he then absconded and did this terrible thing while he was on the run. The people who are determined to do such awful things will continue to get around immigration restrictions (or, in any event, in many cases are already second-generation citizens of the relevant countries, so that "border controls" are quite irrelevant) and the people who will be caught and harmed by immigration restrictions will be ordinary people who tell the truth.

[David]

[Mugwump]

I'd have thought that country of origin is the best proxy we have for religious affiliation, and therefore the only significant filter we have to avoid the creation of a very large group of people who will presumably seek to influence our social and foreign policies in line with the precepts of Islam. You cannot invite millions of people with a strongly held and powerful faith into your country and then expect them to abstain from pursuing the precepts of that faith politically. It is right that we offer the highest standards of protection under the law to Muslims now in the West, but push back hard on expansion of the numbers via immigration if we do not wish to see our country deformed by this assertive and demanding faith and the civil strife it increasingly brings.

In any event, my main point above was that one drugged-up mass murderer in Melbourne provides no useful analogy with the pattern of Islamic terror murders.

[David]

^ Do you have any evidemce to suggest that a higher percentage of Muslims in a given country correlates with higher numbers of terrorist attacks? Or are you not actually talking about terrorism here? If the latter, that would be an unfortunate conflation.

[Mugwump]

^ Do you have any evidemce to suggest that a higher percentage of Muslims in a given country correlates with higher numbers of terrorist attacks? Or are you not actually talking about terrorism here? If the latter, that would be an unfortunate conflation.

^ Evidence that the number of Muslims in a country might correlate with the number of Islam-inspired attacks ? No, none at all. Why would there be any correlation between terrorism inspired by an ideology and the number of people in a community who profess that ideology? I'm honestly surprised that this demands any discussion at all, it is so obvious. Anyway, perhaps you could consider the actual proportions shown in this article and correlate it with places where significant attacks have taken place. I can do a Pearson's r-squared if it'll satisfy you, but it should not be necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... es-greater

cf - just counting mass murders, not the killing of innocent individuals - London (twice), Paris (twice), Brussels, Mumbai, Nice, Berlin, Sweden, and countless incidents in the Middle East. Madrid is a bit of an outlier, which can be ascribed to its proximity to the major Muslim population centres (and to El Cid).

Australia has been largely spared major atrocities (pace Bali) because it has a small Muslim population, and it is far from Muslim population centres. Ditto South Korea, Japan, Poland etc. If you must be an apologist for this Bedouin religion which is so deeply opposed to the liberal views you hold so dear, then a better strategy than denying the obvious is required.

In response to the "unfortunate conflation", I am not sure what point you are making, but no, I am not talking specifically about terrorism. I am talking about a bloc of people who adhere to an assertive ideology (faith) which makes no distinction between the demands of religion and the state, and believes it is supreme truth. If you import that en masse, you risk civil strife, illiberal laws, and a changed identity for Australia. It may feel uncomfortable, but reality is often so.

[Skids]

Islam.... if it isn't obvious to anyone how destructive, divisive and discriminatory it is now. Well, it never will be... well not until you taste it for yourself.

[stui magpie]

^ Do you have any evidemce to suggest that a higher percentage of Muslims in a given country correlates with higher numbers of terrorist attacks? Or are you not actually talking about terrorism here? If the latter, that would be an unfortunate conflation.

presenting evidence to one who's mind is fixed won't change their mind, it simply triggers cognitive dissonance.

[HAL]

I hadn't thought of that.