Incident in Manchester UK

[sixpoints]

I'm over these religions. I think it's high time secular governments said enough is enough. Believing in fairies and promising eternal riches in the bogus next life just panders to the disaffected, psychologically unstable and intellectually challenged.
Tax them out of existence.
If I'm not hearing about priests sexually abusing minors, I've now got some dill in the UK slaughtering people.
These religions are hiding places for people who cannot cope with our world. They group together, talk up their mumbo-jumbo as if any of it is actually real, they reinforce their nonsense to each other, gloat about how their secret knowledge sets them above and apart from the rest of us and then worst of all they indoctrinate the next generation.
If any other groups in society were responsible for such misery, child abuse and death they would shut down immediately.
Seriously this is all wrong.

[Pi]

^
As an atheist I cant really argue with you, but lets consider this:
Buddhism makes up 2.5 percent of the Australian population, Muslim population 2.2 percent. the numbers are comparable but the problems in one community far out weigh the other. Funding by government for Islamic centers, schools and media operations is not proportionate when you compare the two.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/advisor/ ... australia/


Buddhism seems to be ignored, why? because they dont stuff sh!t up.

[watt price tully]

^
As an atheist I cant really argue with you, but lets consider this:
Buddhism makes up 2.5 percent of the Australian population, Muslim population 2.2 percent. the numbers are comparable but the problems in one community far out weigh the other. Funding by government for Islamic centers, schools and media operations is not proportionate when you compare the two.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/advisor/ ... australia/


Buddhism seems to be ignored, why? because they dont stuff sh!t up.

Except in some Buddhist countries. Take Burma for example....

[HAL]

Who, specifically doesn't?

[Wokko]

https://i.redditmedia.com/4JBVSXp7-pa6F ... ddabea.jpg

[watt price tully]

The question for me is why second-generation British/French/whoever citizens do this. Apart from the obvious anger and aggression (and it's particular cultural manifestation), one can really only wonder how people become so thoroughly alienated from their own society that this strikes them as a tolerable option.

That is the nub - & where the resources need to be targeted & there isn't a simple solution.

In Thailand a recent bomber went through a returned (ISIL) fighters re-education programme. These returning fighters let alone the "home-grown" variety need not only monitoring but effective programmes to assist normalization. To that extent I would be banning organizations like Izbut Tahrir (sorry in my iPhone unable to check spelling) who provide the succor for the radicalization of young impressionable muslim minds. Additionally the right wing nutters who use the language of xenophobia play directly into the hands of the fundamentalist islamicists.

[sixpoints]

Sure it's Moslems who have by far the biggest issues at the moment. They have factions that at present are evil, violent and bent on our destruction.
I happen to think all religions are dangerous with their notions of; separatism, exclusivity and dogma. Religions will tell you that they are right, others therefore must be wrong, that they know certainty and all others do not, and many claim they know the truth to an afterlife and if you follow what you're told that you will graduate to this afterlife.
All that twaddle just breeds opportunities for nutters and at the moment the biggest nutters are Moslems.

[watt price tully]

[Morrigu]

[think positive]

The question for me is why second-generation British/French/whoever citizens do this. Apart from the obvious anger and aggression (and it's particular cultural manifestation), one can really only wonder how people become so thoroughly alienated from their own society that this strikes them as a tolerable option.

Bloody good question.

Did the parents ever really fit in? We're they raised that way? But still, they are potentially blowing up their neighbours.

[Mugwump]

I'm over these religions. I think it's high time secular governments said enough is enough. Believing in fairies and promising eternal riches in the bogus next life just panders to the disaffected, psychologically unstable and intellectually challenged.
Tax them out of existence.
If I'm not hearing about priests sexually abusing minors, I've now got some dill in the UK slaughtering people.
These religions are hiding places for people who cannot cope with our world. They group together, talk up their mumbo-jumbo as if any of it is actually real, they reinforce their nonsense to each other, gloat about how their secret knowledge sets them above and apart from the rest of us and then worst of all they indoctrinate the next generation.
If any other groups in society were responsible for such misery, child abuse and death they would shut down immediately.
Seriously this is all wrong.

I understand the impulse, but objectively, in the last 100 years the body count from utopian political movements would be far higher than from religion. It was not religion which murdered 6 million Jews, wilfully starved 7 million Ukrainian peasants, created the Cultural revolution in China. Even the First World War was a matter of politics, not religion. It is not Hinduism, Buddhism or Christianity that is presently an engine of regular mass murder. It is Islam.

[Mugwump]

https://i.redditmedia.com/4JBVSXp7-pa6F ... ddabea.jpg

Indeed, Wokko. Until Muslims as a whole organise to root out this evil, and own it as their problem, it will continue.

[sixpoints]

I'm over these religions. I think it's high time secular governments said enough is enough. Believing in fairies and promising eternal riches in the bogus next life just panders to the disaffected, psychologically unstable and intellectually challenged.
Tax them out of existence.
If I'm not hearing about priests sexually abusing minors, I've now got some dill in the UK slaughtering people.
These religions are hiding places for people who cannot cope with our world. They group together, talk up their mumbo-jumbo as if any of it is actually real, they reinforce their nonsense to each other, gloat about how their secret knowledge sets them above and apart from the rest of us and then worst of all they indoctrinate the next generation.
If any other groups in society were responsible for such misery, child abuse and death they would shut down immediately.
Seriously this is all wrong.

I understand the impulse, but objectively, in the last 100 years the body count from utopian political movements would be far higher than from religion. It was not religion which murdered 6 million Jews, wilfully starved 7 million Ukrainian peasants, created the Cultural revolution in China. Even the First World War was a matter of politics, not religion. It is not Hinduism, Buddhism or Christianity that is presently an engine of regular mass murder. It is Islam.

I agree. However at present it is followers of a certain religion who are perpetrating these horrible acts. This disaffected loon gets solace in his vision of an afterlife. Remember it is central that he didn't just kill those poor people -he killed himself too.
He was no doubt sure he was whizzing straight up to his heaven as a result. Inspired and convinced by his belief in mumbo-jumbo. Religion utterly at the core of what he did.

[HAL]

It seemed like religion which murdered 6 million Jews wilfully starved 7 million Ukrainian peasants created the Cultural revolution in China.

[Mugwump]

The question for me is why second-generation British/French/whoever citizens do this. Apart from the obvious anger and aggression (and it's particular cultural manifestation), one can really only wonder how people become so thoroughly alienated from their own society that this strikes them as a tolerable option.

Bloody good question.

Did the parents ever really fit in? We're they raised that way? But still, they are potentially blowing up their neighbours.

Ah, yes, it's not their fault, it's ours. We have caused them to be "alienated", poor dears. If we gave them a free education, help to go to university, free health care, protection for minorities under the law, none of this would happen. Oh, wait.....

In any society, there will be a certain number of weak-minded losers and hyper-egotists who feed on ideological garbage to breed resentment and hatred. These will look for channels through which to stream their discontents. Some channels will magnify those discontents into homicidal hatreds, and that is what some parts of Islam are doing now.

We should stop making excuses for these monsters, recognise that this thing has many of the same kind of impulses as Nazism once had (with active practitioners and a whole host of sympathisers), and start taking some courageous steps to block its admission and practice in our society.

A good first start would be :

1. The viewing or distribution of pro-Islamist materials will be treated with the same severity as viewing child pornography is today. No excuses, you view, you lose.
2. Anyone traveling to certain countries (Syria, Libya, Algeria, Iraq at al) will need an official permit and an official reason to do so, or s/he will be blocked from re-entry to the U.K. These will be meted out sparingly, with authority to grant them limited to the government and reputatable, certified businesses.
3. Anyone arrested for Islamist activity should undergo the modern equivalent of the de-Nazification programmes used successfully after the Second World War. This means intensive "re-education".