Incident in Manchester UK

[Pies4shaw]

There is no real defence for Suicide Bombers, just ask Israel. For extremist Muslims, my plan would be to say to potential Suicide Bombers, "If you commit the crime. we will execute the gene pool of your whole family. Then you and all your family members will be wrapped in pig skin so there is no going to Allah. It may be a bit extreme but what the world is doing now isn't working. Fight extremism with extremism.

Perhaps we should start eliminating all the gene pools we don't approve of? White supremacists, conservatives, leftists, gays, homophobes, grasping rich people who crawled over the skulls of the poor and the dispossessed to make their money?

[David]

^

Bingo.

The 'reform" of Christianity happened because of the clear separation between the church and the state in western society. Under islam, once it gets a foothold, the church becomes the state, no such separation.

Key difference.

This is nonsense on two counts. Firstly, the separation of church and state in Christian societies we have here is a relatively recent phenomenon and is still more or less absent in some Christian societies (Russia being a case in point). It is, again, not an inherent aspect of Christianity to be pluralistic or cede power to government. The freedom to even practice different variants of Christianity, let alone other religions, or to make laws independent of the church, was something that was fought for.

Secondly, there are more than twenty Muslim-majority countries with a clear separation of church and state. So your claim that Islam and secularism are incompatible is obviously false, and you should be embarrassed to state it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and ... opulations

[Culprit]

There is no real defence for Suicide Bombers, just ask Israel. For extremist Muslims, my plan would be to say to potential Suicide Bombers, "If you commit the crime. we will execute the gene pool of your whole family. Then you and all your family members will be wrapped in pig skin so there is no going to Allah. It may be a bit extreme but what the world is doing now isn't working. Fight extremism with extremism.

Perhaps we should start eliminating all the gene pools we don't approve of? White supremacists, conservatives, leftists, gays, homophobes, grasping rich people who crawled over the skulls of the poor and the dispossessed to make their money?

Sounds like a plan. There is always the rational argument in why we don't go down the extreme path.

[HAL]

Are we in the same category?

[Culprit]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/ ... 5a361ffc74

The more news that comes to light the more the authorities are looking like a bunch of incompetent idiots and all this could have been avoided.

[watt price tully]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/manchester-ariana-grande-concert-attack-agencies-warned-salman-abedi-was-a-threat/news-story/62697efa12b491d0cda55b5a361ffc74

The more news that comes to light the more the authorities are looking like a bunch of incompetent idiots and all this could have been avoided.

The ABC 7.30 report last night interviewed a spokesman for the Mosque where the suicide murderer used to go in Manchester and he noted that congregants had alerted the authorities on a few occasions to this scumbag & his extreme views & behaviours.

Having said that I think the authorities are on a hiding to nothing in some respects: That is, they stopped 8 major terror attacks in the last week or so (the one's we don't get to hear about) & must get so much information that their job must be very difficult one to sort & sift information.

[watt price tully]

A "nice" story:

"...A 93-year old Jewish woman and a Muslim imam have prayed together at a memorial to the victims of the Manchester terror attack...."

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewi ... e-1.439099

Manchester has a relatively large Jewish community that goes back many generations and centuries (dating back to 1070 but more particularly in the 18th Century)

[David]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/manchester-ariana-grande-concert-attack-agencies-warned-salman-abedi-was-a-threat/news-story/62697efa12b491d0cda55b5a361ffc74

The more news that comes to light the more the authorities are looking like a bunch of incompetent idiots and all this could have been avoided.

The ABC 7.30 report last night interviewed a spokesman for the Mosque where the suicide murderer used to go in Manchester and he noted that congregants had alerted the authorities on a few occasions to this scumbag & his extreme views & behaviours.

Having said that I think the authorities are on a hiding to nothing in some respects: That is, they stopped 8 major terror attacks in the last week or so (the one's we don't get to hear about) & must get so much information that their job must be very difficult one to sort & sift information.

Yeah, that's a good point. And criticising their failure to prevent attacks like these only gives the government grounds to pursue further authoritarian overreach.

[Mugwump]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/manchester-ariana-grande-concert-attack-agencies-warned-salman-abedi-was-a-threat/news-story/62697efa12b491d0cda55b5a361ffc74

The more news that comes to light the more the authorities are looking like a bunch of incompetent idiots and all this could have been avoided.

The ABC 7.30 report last night interviewed a spokesman for the Mosque where the suicide murderer used to go in Manchester and he noted that congregants had alerted the authorities on a few occasions to this scumbag & his extreme views & behaviours.

Having said that I think the authorities are on a hiding to nothing in some respects: That is, they stopped 8 major terror attacks in the last week or so (the one's we don't get to hear about) & must get so much information that their job must be very difficult one to sort & sift information.

I agree, WPT. We are in danger of confusing the need to review and learn from incidents like this, with the need to blame and shame. If this was easy to stop, it would not have happened.

[Mugwump]

A "nice" story:

"...A 93-year old Jewish woman and a Muslim imam have prayed together at a memorial to the victims of the Manchester terror attack...."

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewi ... e-1.439099

Manchester has a relatively large Jewish community that goes back many generations and centuries (dating back to 1070 but more particularly in the 18th Century)

It's a nice story, but no substitute for hard-headed policy and real leadership. The "hope not hate" stuff is a kind of decency, but it also has a large portion of ritualized sentimentality, like the posting of flags on Facebook after each massacre.

[stui magpie]

Bloody good question.

Did the parents ever really fit in? We're they raised that way? But still, they are potentially blowing up their neighbours.

I heard or read or both that the parents went to the UK as refugees, but returned home a few years ago.

The alleged suicide bomber stayed in the UK, went to Uni and dropped out, went to a local mosque known to police with a reputation for radicalism, visited the parents in libya ( I think) and underwent some training to be a terrorist while there. This all from mainstream media.

That short synopsis contains a lot of things to consider.

Here's something else to consider:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... pside-down

Some of kinds of terror are more equal than others.

Relevance your honour?

[Mugwump]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/manchester-ariana-grande-concert-attack-agencies-warned-salman-abedi-was-a-threat/news-story/62697efa12b491d0cda55b5a361ffc74

The more news that comes to light the more the authorities are looking like a bunch of incompetent idiots and all this could have been avoided.

The ABC 7.30 report last night interviewed a spokesman for the Mosque where the suicide murderer used to go in Manchester and he noted that congregants had alerted the authorities on a few occasions to this scumbag & his extreme views & behaviours.

Having said that I think the authorities are on a hiding to nothing in some respects: That is, they stopped 8 major terror attacks in the last week or so (the one's we don't get to hear about) & must get so much information that their job must be very difficult one to sort & sift information.

Yeah, that's a good point. And criticising their failure to prevent attacks like these only gives the government grounds to pursue further authoritarian overreach.

So we should never criticize the government on any grounds other than those likely to lead to more "progressive" policies ?

David, for a man of high intelligence, you do write some strange things.

[stui magpie]

^

Bingo.

The 'reform" of Christianity happened because of the clear separation between the church and the state in western society. Under islam, once it gets a foothold, the church becomes the state, no such separation.

Key difference.

This is nonsense on two counts. Firstly, the separation of church and state in Christian societies we have here is a relatively recent phenomenon and is still more or less absent in some Christian societies (Russia being a case in point). It is, again, not an inherent aspect of Christianity to be pluralistic or cede power to government. The freedom to even practice different variants of Christianity, let alone other religions, or to make laws independent of the church, was something that was fought for.

Secondly, there are more than twenty Muslim-majority countries with a clear separation of church and state. So your claim that Islam and secularism are incompatible is obviously false, and you should be embarrassed to state it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and ... opulations

You should be embarrassed by your thick headedness. have a close look at the countries on that list and see how many anywhere near the middle east are in turmoil?

Why do we have Muslims in Australia who insist that the law of the land is lesser than Sharia law?

How well are some of these cities travelling at the moment? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... population

[Mugwump]

There is no real defence for Suicide Bombers, just ask Israel. For extremist Muslims, my plan would be to say to potential Suicide Bombers, "If you commit the crime. we will execute the gene pool of your whole family. Then you and all your family members will be wrapped in pig skin so there is no going to Allah. It may be a bit extreme but what the world is doing now isn't working. Fight extremism with extremism.

Nope, moves us towards their barbarism (just as they want), and won't work anyway. The trouble is, the longer we take to enact sensible, tough-minded policies within the scope of our values, the more these kinds of ideas will start to appeal to people.

[stui magpie]

Other interest factor.

It seems this prick may have planned the attack for around 12 months, even renting a flat he used as a bomb making factory.

The explosive used was TATP which you can find recipes on line for easily. basically Hydrogen peroxide, Acetone, a touch of sulphuric acid and a bit of fiddling. Same explosive used in paris and brussels.

Probably not as powerful as the old cocky's TNT (AKA ANFO) but doesn't need a secondary explosive as a detonator.

Edit, extra info. Not only same explosive as paris etc, basically same MO.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/pari ... ?r=US&IR=T