Freedom of Speech Part 2: Margaret Court and gay rights

[Pies4shaw]

Would that qualify as conservative art?

[David]

I'm not sure, but you could most certainly file it under the horror genre...

[Tannin]

Abbott is a terrible politician but seems like a guy you could have a beer with;

So was Hitler. He was renowned for, in person, being engaging and personable. That's what made him so very, very dangerous.

[watt price tully]

After reading a letter to the Age today I quite like this strategy:

1. Name the building after Margret Court (However like I've said to Stui before she's no wallflower she's a champion of the loony Christian fundamentalist right and goes out of her way to force her views on others and to alienate others at the same time- she doesn't merely express her views but deliberately antagonises by linking gay marriage / transsexuality etc to nazism & communism no less - as Wokko has said previously & elsewhere: once you start doing that you've lost the argument)

2. However make the building for LGBTI purposes (as well as for tennis) , use it advocate for LGBTI issues as well as anti racist stuff - especially for Gay marriage & the issues facing young people who happen to have (in my view) the misfortune of being transgender (misfortune because too many face discrimination, depression & high rates of suicide)

[David]

She might be the first to want to have her name removed if that happened!

[watt price tully]

She might be the first to want to have her name removed if that happened!

win - win

[stui magpie]

After reading a letter to the Age today I quite like this strategy:

1. Name the building after Margret Court (However like I've said to Stui before she's no wallflower she's a champion of the loony Christian fundamentalist right and goes out of her way to force her views on others and to alienate others at the same time- she doesn't merely express her views but deliberately antagonises by linking gay marriage / transsexuality etc to nazism & communism no less - as Wokko has said previously & elsewhere: once you start doing that you've lost the argument)

2. However make the building for LGBTI purposes (as well as for tennis) , use it advocate for LGBTI issues as well as anti racist stuff - especially for Gay marriage & the issues facing young people who happen to have (in my view) the misfortune of being transgender (misfortune because too many face discrimination, depression & high rates of suicide)

Wouldn't have a problem with that.

In fact, if the LGBTI community are seeking to hold events, whether educational or supportive, whatever, I would encourage them to book Margaret Court Arena for them.

[Mugwump]

After reading a letter to the Age today I quite like this strategy:

1. Name the building after Margret Court (However like I've said to Stui before she's no wallflower she's a champion of the loony Christian fundamentalist right and goes out of her way to force her views on others and to alienate others at the same time- she doesn't merely express her views but deliberately antagonises by linking gay marriage / transsexuality etc to nazism & communism no less - as Wokko has said previously & elsewhere: once you start doing that you've lost the argument)

2. However make the building for LGBTI purposes (as well as for tennis) , use it advocate for LGBTI issues as well as anti racist stuff - especially for Gay marriage & the issues facing young people who happen to have (in my view) the misfortune of being transgender (misfortune because too many face discrimination, depression & high rates of suicide)

Wouldn't have a problem with that.

In fact, if the LGBTI community are seeking to hold events, whether educational or supportive, whatever, I would encourage them to book Margaret Court Arena for them.

Wouldn't have a problem with that ? Turning a public building into a monument of spite and insult because someone expresses views you do not like ? What a petty lot you are. She does not agree with homosexuality. Lots of gay people vilify religion. On this logic, we should turn gay community centers into churches for the anti-gay lobby the next time a prominently gay person says negative things about religion.

As for the statement that Court linked transgender children with the Nazis, this is very dishonest. She said that "brainwashing" of children was a tool of Nazis and Communists. It's a basic rhetorical statement that is used every day.

She's a daft old bat (NB gender and ageist warning) with silly views. She's entitled to them, just as gay people entitled to liken the church to
Nazis for brainwashing children - a statement that is probably made every day by someone gay, somewhere. Leave her alone. The hysteria that has been made surrounding her comments makes her point about propaganda seem more valid than it is.

[stui magpie]

I didn't say to turn it into a centre of spite and insult. If you're going to have a gay and lesbian centre in a public building somewhere, why not choose the irony of a building named after someone who disagrees with your cause rather than continuing the echo chamber.

I don't mind this guys perspective either

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afls- ... 347454b921

if the progressives want to advance their agenda, shrilly attacking anyone who dares speak out against it is a marketing fail.

Better to turn the other cheek (irony intended) express sympathy that someone so lauded feels that way and pitch your appeal to the mass of undecided.

Attacking those of fixed alternate opinions rallies their like minded people, makes your supporters feel good but does zero to positively influence those who you want to win to your side

[Mugwump]

I didn't say to turn it into a centre of spite and insult. If you're going to have a gay and lesbian centre in a public building somewhere, why not choose the irony of a building named after someone who disagrees with your cause rather than continuing the echo chamber.

I don't mind this guys perspective either

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afls- ... 347454b921

if the progressives want to advance their agenda, shrilly attacking anyone who dares speak out against it is a marketing fail.

Better to turn the other cheek (irony intended) express sympathy that someone so lauded feels that way and pitch your appeal to the mass of undecided.

Attacking those of fixed alternate opinions rallies their like minded people, makes your supporters feel good but does zero to positively influence those who you want to win to your side

^ WPT's post suggested that the centre would have gay advocacy virtually coequal with tennis, and that it would be significantly purposed to postitively equate her name with the cause she clearly dislikes greatly. That is what petty spite and insult looks like. WPT is usually better than that, but this issue seems to create the need for vilification, insult and a crowing, mocking victory over an enemy.

It's a bloody tennis centre because of her great record as an Australian tennis player. If Don Bradman had been anti gay marriage, do we turn the Bradman stands into gay centres too ? This is Sovietist stuff, airbrushing people out of history and publicly disgracing them for their political views. It is but a short step to far nastier methods. Totalitarianism always has the best of motives.

[stui magpie]

^

It's a multi purpose arena.

It's used for tennis, it also hosts netball and concerts

http://www.margaretcourtarena.com.au/

[Mugwump]

^ fair enough, but it is named for her tennis. Making it an advocacy centre for things she really dislikes because it has her name on it and she dared express her views is still spite.

[watt price tully]

^ fair enough, but it is named for her tennis. Making it an advocacy centre for things she really dislikes because it has her name on it and she dared express her views is still spite.

Margaret Court did just a tad more than "express her feelings" as though it was without any value. You say this as though she's a benign older biddy who's just finished crocheting a teapot cosy.

She has said quite clearly that LGBTI are in effect Nazis & Communists, the Devil incarnate etc. This is not merely saying she disagree with their views. The manner in which she has expressed her opinion also gives rise to the reactions we see.

By naming the tennis centre as it is we recognise MC's contribution to Tennis. Well done her. After that she has no say in how it is to be used. Making MC stadium a place for the wider community including LGBTI community allows inclusiveness rather than divisiveness. MC is an active participant in the divisiveness of the current debate, not merely a passive observer "expressing her opinion".

[swoop42]

She's 74 and a product of a different time and most likely conservative upbringing and those on the far left are just as capable of going over the top with criticism as the far right.

At the end of the day if you don't like what she has to say don't listen and get on with your life.

[Mugwump]

She has said quite clearly that LGBTI are in effect Nazis & Communists, the Devil incarnate etc.

Nope, here is what she said, as quoted in the SMH :

"That's what Hitler did. That's what communism did," Court said, "get in the minds of the children. There's a whole plot in our nation and in the nations of the world to get in the minds of the children.".

Separately, she appears to have said (though I cannot find the exact quote) that sowing sexual confusion in the minds of children is "all the devil".

Neither of these statements equate transgender children with the devil or with
Nazis, directly or "in effect". One never expects fairness when the modern Left are on their modern witch hunts, but the facts are the facts. Her actual statement on this area was that "I love gay people and have many in my church". Hardly the statement of a hatemonger.

Still, the poison has done its work by now. The bullant nest of outrage has been kicked, and the slavering for a dishonouring is in full surge. Any public figure with views that the bullants do not like will think twice about expressing them in future. Meanwhile ordinary people will raise their eyebrows, and consider that defending a daft old bat is not worth the trouble of having their own tolerance called into question. Martin Niemoller had a poem about that.