Occupational violence

[stui magpie]

It would stop him breeding I suppose, although 22 from Sth Morang he's probably already got 3 kids.

Compromise, we do both. Your idea and mine.

[Mugwump]

Opposing unnnecessary punishment isn't the same thing as coddling them, Mugwump.

Define unnecessary and define coddling and I'll have a better idea of whether we agree.

It bears repeating. Things like this very rarely happened fifty years ago, if they happened at all. Since humanity's essence has not changed, if they happen now, it is because of the choices we made as a society. We persist in putting sticking plasters over internal organ failure.

[Pies4shaw]

He just needs nurturing. We should let him keep smoking in the foyers of hospitals until he learns respect by example.

[stui magpie]

^

Society has changed though.

A lot of the positives come with unwanted negatives, but that's how shit works

[stui magpie]

He just needs nurturing. We should let him keep smoking in the foyers of hospitals until he learns respect by example.

Strip him naked, tie him up so his head is down and arse in the air, stick a lit cigar in his arse and tell him he can go free as soon as he blows smoke rings from his mouth

[Pies4shaw]

Better still, you could make him listen to "Between the Buttons" on endless loop. If you want to torture people, do it properly, I say.

[stui magpie]

^

I reckon The Beatles anthology would do it.

[Mugwump]

A lot of the positives come with unwanted negatives, but that's how shit works

Not necessarily ; many of the positives - and there are many - were quite obtainable without the disrespect, insecurity, violence, debt and selfishness that is now so very widespread. This is merely the latest flake in that mounting blizzard.

The past was very far from perfect, but in improving it we were not compelled to choose the wrong future.

As an example, if you are going to license far greater social freedom, is it really wise to lessen the punishment for law-breaking ? If you are going to give welfare, is it really wise to detach that from the need to do at least some work, learning skills and structure ? If you are going to import immigrants, should you ensure that you have jobs and infrastructure and a policy of assimilation ? If you are going to tell children that they have rights and entitlements, does it enhance education if you erode the authority of teachers at the same time ? Etc etc. None of these things follow, unless you want to overthrow the existing order.

[stui magpie]

I didn't say they/we had to do things hey way we have.

I've posted several times about the law of unintended consequences. It's something too rarely taken into account when changes are made to any social system.

People do things, generally, in good faith. they look at the positive consequences they want to drive and try to put things in place to do that but seldom do they take a step back to look at the whole proposed system in context and see what are the negative consequences that could arise. if that was done, the system can be tweaked to achieve the positives and minimise the negatives

[Mugwump]

^ agreed, stui, but very often they do not want to recognise the downside because it does not fit their political world view to see it, or because they do not want to have to take the hard decisions required to mitigate that downside.

It's sentimentally well-intentioned, perhaps, but I'm not sure I'd grant that it is good faith.