Freedom of Speech Part 2: Margaret Court and gay rights

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She has said quite clearly that LGBTI are in effect Nazis & Communists, the Devil incarnate etc.

Nope, here is what she said, as quoted in the SMH :

"That's what Hitler did. That's what communism did," Court said, "get in the minds of the children. There's a whole plot in our nation and in the nations of the world to get in the minds of the children.".

Separately, she appears to have said (though I cannot find the exact quote) that sowing sexual confusion in the minds of children is "all the devil".

Neither of these statements equate transgender children with the devil or with
Nazis, directly or "in effect". One never expects fairness when the modern Left are on their modern witch hunts, but the facts are the facts. Her actual statement on this area was that "I love gay people and have many in my church". Hardly the statement of a hatemonger.

Still, the poison has done its work by now. The bullant nest of outrage has been kicked, and the slavering for a dishonouring is in full surge. Any public figure with views that the bullants do not like will think twice about expressing them in future. Meanwhile ordinary people will raise their eyebrows, and consider that defending a daft old bat is not worth the trouble of having their own tolerance called into question. Martin Niemoller had a poem about that.

Let's not split hairs here. MC's been doing this for years not just at 74. These days 74 is not infirm or impaired. Again you seek to minimize her nastiness.

To be clear:

She is not a benign older biddy. She is not stupid in fact (unintentionally I assume) you've displayed a demeaning attitude to older people by trying to protect her in the way you have

To be clear:

I have said throughout & consistently:

Let's have the stadium named after her.

To be clear:

She has no control nor should she over the stadium's use.

To be clear:

She has expressed homophobic comments directed to gays, older tennis players etc and in so doing MC has juxtaposed nazis, communists etc with the said LGBTI (or parts thereof) which is divisive.

To be clear:

I have stated that using the stadium for purposes including the LGBTI community will be an act of inclusiveness

To be clear

Nowhere (I think) have I said punish her for her views

Is that clear?

[Mugwump]

^ every opinion is divisive. It's why we have them, to draw distinctions between what we believe to be true and false. You want to devote a significant part of a building named in her honor for purposes that she clearly abhors because you disagree with those views. That's called spite, in any reasonable meaning of the word. That, at least, is clear.

Fortunately, I doubt that we would see any public buildings which happen to be named after a gay person re-purposed for conservative religious advocacy if the dedicatee disses religion. For this is the mirror-image of your unfortunate, "inclusive" (sic) proposal.

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^ every opinion is divisive. It's why we have them, to draw distinctions between what we believe to be true and false. You want to devote a significant part of a building named in her honor for purposes that she clearly abhors because you disagree with those views. That's called spite, in any reasonable meaning of the word. That, at least, is clear.

Fortunately, I doubt that we would see any public buildings which happen to be named after a gay person re-purposed for conservative religious advocacy if the dedicatee disses religion. For this is the mirror-image of your unfortunate, "inclusive" (sic) proposal.

You're overthinking this. Stop arguing for arguments sake. Your analogies are stretching the point to tedious proportions.

She's entitled to her views but can't complain about a reaction when she aligns LGBTI with nazis and communists.

My views are to include the many, her views are to exclude the many. She can express her views ad infinitum, she's been doing that for years. I respected her as a tennis player. I suspect you've only learned of her views now. Don't attribute others (or your ideas of others intentions) to me.

However use the stadium for a variety of purposes (oh wait it already is) but include LGBTI in that. That is not to spite her but to include the others. They too will respect her magnificent tennis history. The rest is a nonsense & an indefensible argument on your part: (not very nuanced) that is clear. You know that too

Good night I'm off to bed.

[Mugwump]

^ not overthinking it, WPT, just thinking - an art which we, as a society, are in danger of losing, under a toxic landslide of sentimental conventionality.

The analogies I used are about as logically exact as an analogy can be. You just don't like them because they do not lead to your preordained conclusion.

[David]

Honestly, the more I think about this, the more I feel like I don't care if the name does get changed. Nobody has a fundamental right to be honoured in this way, and it has practically no bearing on her rights to freedom of expression. Sports stadiums change their names all the time, sometimes for the most trivial reasons. She chose to devote her later life to a cause that made a lot of people angry and upset, using her fame as a tennis player to do so, and that taints her legacy. She's been honoured for fourteen years. Maybe it's someone else's turn, or maybe it's time to give the stadium a generic name again.

[Mugwump]

You express views which make some people angry and upset too, David. if, in later life, you achieve an honor, should we take it from you because some people get upset about your opinions and beliefs ?

A society which retracts honours from people for speaking what they believe, in good faith, to be the truth, is one that does not deserve its liberty.

When they come for you, who will speak , etc.

[David]

[Mugwump]

[Pies4shaw]

[David]

[ronrat]

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My computer is down but McEnroe was quite amusing re Court & Nastase.

[David]

Here's the link, WPT:

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/tennis/vide ... ret-court/

[watt price tully]

Here's the link, WPT:

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/tennis/vide ... ret-court/

Cheers David

[David]