Impressions

[partypie]

^ Interesting definition of unlawful imprisonment when the person concerned arrives unlawfully, having passed by many other countries en route, and is then freely allowed by the Australian government to go anywhere in the world except Australia, and an interesting definition of torture where those government (or private contractor) officials who abuse their position are acting unlawfully and subject to prosecution. Still, if elastic definitions net Slater and Gordon $20m in fees, they have their uses, I guess. Much better way to spend money than on teachers and hospitals.

In any event, whatever legal sloppiness allows this cynical bonanza on behalf of people who invited themselves here and the ambulance-chasers, it is the reponsibility of our parliamentarians to get rid of it.

$14 billion spent on 4,000 arrivals was the figure quoted the other day

[5150]

I am sure everyone loves parking inspectors and speed camera operators as well. The new SS Building inspectors will be employed to support a Government anti union run agenda and one of which I disagree with. This goes back to Peter Reith days. Sure they are just doing a job but they will be employed based on their views and not qualifications. I don't agree with what Setka said and I would suggest he will have to face charges or should face charges and in saying that, this won't stop the inspectors being ostracised, that's the nature of the beast/job. For every person that is anti union there is another person pro union and it's the same old divisive politics from the LNP.

The partisan point is secondary. What shocked me was that a union leader threatened intimidation and harassment of public officials and their families in front of thousands of people and the state premier barely demurred. That is amazing, and yet somehow reflective of the undercurrent of violence people seem to take for granted here. I used to say that Australia was a hybrid of US and European culture, with of course its own uniqueness as well. It seems to be becoming more like the US, however, in its resigned acceptance of violence and its cynically litigious culture.

Yet on every union site there are posters all over it about anti-bullying and safe workplaces etc.

This flies in the face of everything they promote and just goes to show their just in it for the kick backs and power trips. Nothing but rouges protecting rouges.

We've got to protect those guys sweeping the floors on $45 per hour...

[thesoretoothsayer]

5150,

I started my working life as a builders labourer with the legendary/notorious BLF. I didn't last long - a big recession took care of that.

Yes, the building unions are dodgy.
Yes, they do stand over businesses.
Yes, there does seem to be much corruption.
BUT
despite all of this, they do look after their member's interests.
And, as a result, retain strong support from their members.

I think Setka is a thug.
I"m guessing most union members would agree that Setka is a thug.
But he's a thug that's keeping them in a job and getting them pay rises.

[David]

The current rates of community violence (whether or not they have actually increased) seem like a very different issue to The Manus Island payout. In my view, that is a well-deserved victory for human rights against our thuggish government. Don't forget that it was a voluntary settlement on the latter's part; had the case proceeded further the figure could have been much higher, and had much graver consequences for our cruel and unlawful detention policies. The government knew full well that they didn't have a leg to stand on.

I just hope that this won't preclude further prosecutions and even imprisonment of key figures (like Peter Dutton, Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison and others) in future. In a just world our country and its leaders would be paying far more for what they've done.

[watt price tully]

Back in Melbourne for a few weeks, and I am struck forcefully by a few things in the last three days:

1. The level of violence accepted as part of everyday life. Emergency workers assaulted every day, 120 deliberate rammings of police cars in six months, and every day incidents of violence reported on the headline news (today it is a gentleman using a baseball bat to destroy property in Myer). No one seems overly concerned about the pattern this represents.

2. A union leader threatens to hunt down and harass Federal inspectors in their homes and embarrass their children, and the State Premier equivocates and mildly tut-tuts when asked about it.

3. Police warn that drug use in Australian schools is out of control with addiction rates from ice - including at primary school level - rising dramatically.

4. Illegal immigrants are awarded $70m of taxpayers funds in compensation. Whether technically justified or not, and one struggles to imagine why this should be the case, no one seems concerned to bring anyone to account for this abominable waste of public money.

I have long thought that British society was in crisis, and it is. By comparison, however, it seems ten years behind Australia in terms of the level of everyday violence and destruction of social capital.

Go back to where you came from, bloody pommy whinger.

We don't need ur type coming here.

If you can't integrate then F* off.


If that's your impression then your'e too impressionable. Get out & smell the roses.

The Government knew they were breaking the law that's why they settled. Period. Seeking asylum is not breaking the law. I'm not too sure about the UK but in Australia, Governments need to act and behave lawfully.

With respect to Setka he's an idiot & the fact he stands out is beacause it is atypical not typical behaviour for unionists. If you rely on Stui for a balanced view of unions then ur in trouble

I question your judgement too. Why TF would come to Melbourne in Winter?

The media here is trying hard to be as poor as a lot of the media in the UK. Issues get magnified & amplified out of proportion & out of perspective.

Enjoy the roses (although not many in winter while they;re being pruned) & hopefully enjoy the game at the G as I hope to be. (Oh it rhymes)

Go Pies

[Mugwump]

^ there's not really Much to be said about a post that's half serious (and defensive when it is so) and half-facetious, but let's have a go:

Melbourne is actually at its best in winter, and in its early, jasmine-flowering spring. The summers are disfigured by days that are cruelly hot and the autumns are a bit of a wet squib, after the brilliant fireworks of a European autumn.

Setka is clearly a thug who has clawed to the top of eternally thuggish institution. My point was shock at the fact that Andrews essentially supported him. I am not used to that level of political corruption.

The media may magnify, but statistics are statistics. 120 deliberate rammings of police cars is an interesting commentary on the exiguous fear of the law held by ordinary criminals. You have yourself. commented on the assaults on public sector workers. Since you now dismiss them as a media beat-up, I can only presume that it's because you are uncomfortable with the implications for your neo-liberal-Marxist social philosophy.

On asylum seekers, the question of whether there was a case to be brought is secondary. The scandal is that our government has either entered into a legal structure which enables it, and/or failed to follow its own laws, and passed 70m of public funds to Slither and Gordon and a group of illegal immigrants, yet everyone shrugs at this (or, in The case of the left, rejoices despite the cost to real services). All very strange. A frog can be boiled slowly, without ever noticing, until the crisis point where it is too late to escape.

No doubt the U.K. Has its own versions of these pathologies, and I've commented on these passim.

[stui magpie]

No doubt you'd find it a contrast coming back. How long has it been?

People who immigrate carry a romantic notion of the country they left. European migrants in the 50's case in point.

Setka is a thug and a fool. Common knowledge, so no-one bats an eye when he says something provocative. Dandrews is a union stooge is also common knowledge so again no one expects him to say anything.

WPT and I do have differing views of Australian unions, his is idealistic; mine is realistic.

[Mugwump]

^ ive. Even here about 2.5 weeks. I've done a FIFO for about a week each 12-18 months for many years, but having semi-retired now I will be back for about 8 weeks this time, going back to London mid August. I grew up here, in Vermont, and left when I was 29. Since you're always where you were brought up, this'll always be home, but I'm struck by the change from the relatively safe and egalitarian Melbourne of my early adulthood and the edginess and inequality now. it's still high functioning by world standards, no doubt, ad its growing Asianness is both necessary and very positive - but i think the drive to become a megacity has had some real costs, and i wonder if oir politicians understand the direction of travel and the risk of urban dissolution.

[thesoretoothsayer]

Even those of us who've stayed have noticed these things.
The hour-long drive that used to take 30 minutes.
Being packed into trains like sardines.

However, we don't really make anything anymore.
So our economy is based on bringing in more and more people to keep things chugging along.
Unfortunately, it's megacity or recession.

[Pies4shaw]

It's still a 14 minute walk from my home to Chambers. Where do you guys live? Gippsland?

[watt price tully]

^ there's not really Much to be said about a post that's half serious (and defensive when it is so) and half-facetious, but let's have a go:

Melbourne is actually at its best in winter, and in its early, jasmine-flowering spring. The summers are disfigured by days that are cruelly hot and the autumns are a bit of a wet squib, after the brilliant fireworks of a European autumn.

Setka is clearly a thug who has clawed to the top of eternally thuggish institution. My point was shock at the fact that Andrews essentially supported him. I am not used to that level of political corruption.

The media may magnify, but statistics are statistics. 120 deliberate rammings of police cars is an interesting commentary on the exiguous fear of the law held by ordinary criminals. You have yourself. commented on the assaults on public sector workers. Since you now dismiss them as a media beat-up, I can only presume that it's because you are uncomfortable with the implications for your neo-liberal-Marxist social philosophy.

On asylum seekers, the question of whether there was a case to be brought is secondary. The scandal is that our government has either entered into a legal structure which enables it, and/or failed to follow its own laws, and passed 70m of public funds to Slither and Gordon and a group of illegal immigrants, yet everyone shrugs at this (or, in The case of the left, rejoices despite the cost to real services). All very strange. A frog can be boiled slowly, without ever noticing, until the crisis point where it is too late to escape.

No doubt the U.K. Has its own versions of these pathologies, and I've commented on these passim.

Melbourne is at its best in Spring and Autumn not winter as the sunshine / days are too short although there can be a turbulence about spring. County Vic in Winter can be spectacular (NE Vic where I used to live).

You're right, the Government did fail to live up to the laws of the land and lied a lot doing so. Don't particularly care which lawyers were involved in allowing the "little people" get about $35,000 each because they were treated illegally. I'm surprised if you thought that they were not deserving due to unlawful treatment.

We'll let the undergrad Neo left blah blah blah Marxist, 60's or any other term go through to the keeper - you must have me confused with somebody else.

As for Police; this is concerning but people who drink too much are the biggest cause for concern for aggression & violence to the police let alone some of the ICE affected one's but the former is larger than the latter

I'm not sure what the stats are like when correlated with the huge population growth we've got in Melbourne. I suspect it's all the interstaters coming to live in Melbourne

Enjoy your time in Melbourne but do enjoy the roses, no. AFL no, The food & gardens.

Stui & I do have different views about Unions. There are his views and there are right ones. He trusts employers to do the right thing all of the time. I'm a tad more suspicious.

[watt price tully]

It's still a 14 minute walk from my home to Chambers. Where do you guys live? Gippsland?

7/11 is not chambers nor is Pomeroys.

[Morrigu]

My impression - winter in Africa is preferable and a bloody lot warmer during the day than Melbourne - brrrr - walking out of Tulla night my bone marrow froze!!

[Mugwump]

Welcome back, Morrigu. Hope it went well.

[Morrigu]

Welcome back, Morrigu. Hope it went well.

Cheers Mug twas fantastic!

Victoria Falls viewed from both Zambia and Zimbabwe is breathtaking.

The Zimbabweans are wonderful friendly and open people - given what their country has become I think we expected them to be - I don't know more downcast perhaps. But they weren't and were very open in discussions about the disastrous decisions that have been made that now sees their unemployment rate extremely high and them having to import food that they once produced in abundance.

The sad thing is that most said they wouldn't be voting in the upcoming elections because it was pointless such is the corruption