Is society getting worse?

[watt price tully]

I don't especially disagree with that, though the condition of the 19th Century poor vs now is really incomparably different. No one in Britain or Australia needs to resort to crime to survive or to live an essentially civilized life. ........

With all due respect that is errant nonsense. Do you know much pensioners have to live on & the cost of living. That is supreme ignorance.

Do you realize how hard it is for young people who are homeless to get access to money to live?

Utter ignorance & spoken from a position of privilege.

The cost of living outweighs the capacity to pay for the poor in a lot of cases. My SIL works in a senior position at Centrelink what they are doing to young people & others is simply horrendous.

Best not to start a post with "all due respect" if the remainder of it is largely ad hominem and full of foot-stamping and ignorant assumptions about my "privilege" and what I know and don't know. I don't particularly want to engage you on the basis of such unpleasant attacks, but both of my 87+ year old parents live on the state pension and have done so for many years. So before you lecture me on my ignorance of such matters you might want to project just a little humility amid the self-righteousness, and test your assumptions.

My comment compared the conditions of the 19th century poor and today's poor. The latter have state income protection in age and unemployment, minimum wage laws, government pensions, free education to age 18, free health care, workplace health and safety laws, and a plethora of opportunities for self-education. If you want to contest this with actual argument, feel free.

1. (I presume) Your parents own their own home (good on them).
2. if they don't & have to pay rent then there is no way they can live on a pension & afford outgoings with the amount of the common pension provides compared to the cost of living.
3. If you think health is free, if you think state education is free then you're seriously ill informed.

[HAL]

Yes, I realize how hard it is for young people who are homeless to get access to money to live .

[stui magpie]

Pensioners don't pay tax or the medicare levy and still get treated free in a public hospital.

sounds free to me.

[Mugwump]

^ from the Victorian govt education FAQs re parent payments :

"Victorian legislation clearly states that instruction in the standard curriculum program must be provided free of charge to all students in Victorian government schools."

There are potential payments for consumables, but the FAQs make it clear that in the event of parental hardship these will be waived.

It's all hair-splitting and bears little on the point I made initially, but facts are facts, even if they cannot always open minds.

[watt price tully]

My kids went to a Government Secondary School: costs
1 uniforms
2. Books
3 stationary
4 trips
5. Food
6. Public Transport
7. Computers
8. School levies
9. Sports clothes
This is from memory.

If you didn't pay certain sums you were ineligible to participate in certain things.

My kids could do things because we could afford it.

Free, my arse.

Health: Some GP's do bulk bill but not too many. If you go to hospital no charge. If you have say a chronic condition even if very painful then need elective surgery you have to wait. Medicines are not free. Lets say you need tablets / injections etc who covers this? Dental is even worse. It's free to a point however due to various budgets users pay. In Mental health the state paid for say fortnightly injections or tablets etc. users now pay. What I've described is merely the tip of a cost burden to the "consumer" iceberg.

It shows a huge gulf between policy & the reality on the ground. Free health: someone else's arse

[Mugwump]

^ still missing the point.

[thesoretoothsayer]

My kids went to a Government Secondary School: costs
1 uniforms
2. Books
3 stationary
4 trips
5. Food
6. Public Transport
7. Computers
8. School levies
9. Sports clothes
This is from memory.

If you didn't pay certain sums you were ineligible to participate in certain things.

My kids could do things because we could afford it.

Free, my arse.

Health: Some GP's do bulk bill but not too many. If you go to hospital no charge. If you have say a chronic condition even if very painful then need elective surgery you have to wait. Medicines are not free. Lets say you need tablets / injections etc who covers this? Dental is even worse. It's free to a point however due to various budgets users pay. In Mental health the state paid for say fortnightly injections or tablets etc. users now pay. What I've described is merely the tip of a cost burden to the "consumer" iceberg.

It shows a huge gulf between policy & the reality on the ground. Free health: someone else's arse

So is there anything you think you should be paying for?

[watt price tully]

[Morrigu]

^ really was that needed??

[watt price tully]

^ really was that needed??

Probably not, but when you get a loaded question like I did then...

[think positive]

My kids went to a Government Secondary School: costs
1 uniforms
2. Books
3 stationary
4 trips
5. Food
6. Public Transport
7. Computers
8. School levies
9. Sports clothes
This is from memory.

If you didn't pay certain sums you were ineligible to participate in certain things.

My kids could do things because we could afford it.

Free, my arse.

Health: Some GP's do bulk bill but not too many. If you go to hospital no charge. If you have say a chronic condition even if very painful then need elective surgery you have to wait. Medicines are not free. Lets say you need tablets / injections etc who covers this? Dental is even worse. It's free to a point however due to various budgets users pay. In Mental health the state paid for say fortnightly injections or tablets etc. users now pay. What I've described is merely the tip of a cost burden to the "consumer" iceberg.

It shows a huge gulf between policy & the reality on the ground. Free health: someone else's arse

I get your point. I remember reading an article at the start of the year adding up the cost of free education! It was a lot! It never happened to my kids, but I know of people who's children were singled out if their books were not paid for by the due date, (not at the schools my kids went to, fully public ones) and I remember it happening when I was in high school. Not all public schools are like that though, several around provide breakfast for the kids dropped off early. Kids should never feel shame for these things.

Also with medical. I insisted on full body tests for my husband, $1000 no rebate, but what of the people who can't afford those tests? What of the people who couldn't afford the experimental treatments? Having to wait to get a hip fixed is bad enough, but I'm talking about life saving treatment. My brother in law paid through the nose for his extra 18 months of life. Worth every cent. I'm not complaining about what it's cost us, (WPT wasn't complaining on his own behalf either) we saved for a rainy day, but not everyone can afford to do that. So no, not free.

On the other side of the coin, re the treatment dished out by Centrelink, my sister in law works in the werribee branch, she's not dealing with the public anymore, but gees, the stories, the ferals demanding money, extras, pissing on the floor, throwing punches, I wouldn't work there for any amount.

Like with everything, the bad eggs spoil it for everyone; those who cheat the system put insurance rates up for everyone else, and decrease the funds available to help those who need it. Greed. It will be the death of mankind!

[think positive]

Oh crap, sorry to hear that. hope you can get that back, or at least be compensated for it.

hmm, i just did a search for a replacement, crap~! i forgot we did a bit of work to it, full paint, an electric winch on the front, and a tool box full of tools! ah well. shitheads

EDIT an hour or so later!
we just got a phone call from the cops. which, since we didnt report the trailer stolen, seemed odd! the dooffers didn't take the plate off the trailer, they did something wrong near Seymour, and got in a police chase - they got caught, and the trailer was full of stolen property!! so we just need to send them pics of the trailer to prove its ours! hopefully its in near enough one piece!! even more bizarre, its now at Romsey Police station, my sister is a cop, and she lives in Romsey!!

[stui magpie]

^

Good stuff.

Cops don't routinely run trailer plates, they see a licence plate, it's registered. If hey spot a trailer with no plates, and they're bored, they may pull you over and tell you to get it registered. So it's smarter to leave the plates on a stolen trailer than run around with no plates at all, as long as you don't drive like a dumbarse.

I got pulled up years back for my trailer not being registered, so i got it registered and have had no issues since even though I forgot to pay the rego - about 10 years ago.

[think positive]

^

Good stuff.

Cops don't routinely run trailer plates, they see a licence plate, it's registered. If hey spot a trailer with no plates, and they're bored, they may pull you over and tell you to get it registered. So it's smarter to leave the plates on a stolen trailer than run around with no plates at all, as long as you don't drive like a dumbarse.

I got pulled up years back for my trailer not being registered, so i got it registered and have had no issues since even though I forgot to pay the rego - about 10 years ago.

Not sure what they did to attract attention, but it's an open trailer so anything other than a car is going to look odd, and if it was a car, well they get reported pretty quickly! I was going to report the plate this week! We just had so much on Friday Saturday it wasn't a priority since we thought we had no hope of getting it back! Apparently it's got two wrecked tyres, they drove it on the rims one side, hopefully no damage underneath. I'm sure it's nothing we couldn't fix. He's a lucky bugger I tell you! Cheers! And pay the rego, it pays off!

[HAL]

What is stopping you?