Desexing a Dog

[Skids]

Ok, something a bit different, but a debate I've been involved in quite a few times lately.

A few years ago, I was like most people, if you get a dog, get it "Fixed up" ASAP. That's the right thing to do.... isn't it?

Well maybe not, according to a heap of research I discovered when making the decision whether or not to have Pete desexed.

What's your opinion? Did you research before spaying or just do it because you thought it was the right thing to do?

The RSPCA and your local vet will tell you to get it done early. This is one thing, from what I've discovered, that is so wrong it's not funny!
If you do decide to desex your pet, it's best to let them at least mature before removing their reproductive organs.

In our opinion the healthiest pet is one that keeps its reproductive tract. This does pose challenges. Male cats mark and spray. It can be burdensome to have a non-spayed female dog bleeding in the house. Female cats, when they are in heat, will drive you nuts! Male dogs can become dog aggressive and mark their territory or the house.

The best compromise, if any of these things is too much to deal with, would be to spay and neuter at a minimum of one year if not two years of age. Allow your pet to reach full maturation and reach adulthood before considering surgery. We have seen shelters that spay and neuter at 6 weeks of age! Clearly, this aggressive a surgery at such an early stage of development is not warranted.

http://www.angryvet.com/spaying-and-neutering/


Vets also spin the line that by having your pet desexed you'll save it from certain cancers. (believing a vet, trying to SELL you a sterilisation operation is a bit like believing a car salesman when he tells you the window tint he has for $700 is the one you should be getting)
When in fact, evidence show that, spayed females had 6.5 times higher incidence of all cancers combined compared to intact females, and neutered males had 3.6 times higher incidence than intact males.

German Shepards who are desexed before the age of 1 are 3 times more likely to develop joint disorders.

Dogs of both genders neutered or spayed at 6 months or younger had significantly increased odds of developing a behavioral disorder, including separation anxiety, noise phobia, timidity, excitability, submissive urination, aggression, hyperactivity, and/or fear biting.

When it came to thunderstorm phobia, all neutered or spayed dogs were at greater risk than intact dogs, regardless of age at neutering.

This is so spot on!! My last 2 Bullies would be terrified during a Thunderstorm, Pete couldn't care less!

Dr Becker suggests sterilization instead of desexing (I didn't even know there was avariance to the op until I read this).

My second choice is to sterilize without desexing. This means performing a procedure that will prevent pregnancy while sparing the testes or ovaries so they continue to produce hormones essential for the dog's health. This can be done at any age, and could easily replace the current standard of desexing by high volume spay/neuter clinics and shelters around the country.

This typically involves a vasectomy for male dogs, and a modified spay for females. The modified spay removes the uterus while preserving the hormone-producing ovaries. This procedure is less invasive, requires shorter time under anesthesia, and yields the same results with no negative side effects.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/he ... fects.aspx

[think positive]

I voted when the vet told me too. But she also told me to wait til he was at least 5 months, got him done at 5 months 1 week. My last male fathered the female I still have, he was done at 7, he Cocked his leg and marked territory and could be aggressive (mainly when he got older but after seeing him attack molly when I first bought her home I was always wary). Molly was done at about 6 months! I don't want an aggressive dog pissing everywhere! I feed him what the vets suggests for his health, I trust my vet. I should also say when She put Max to sleep she was only going to charge me for the injection and brought her nurse with her too. She also sent flowers to the house the next day.
Plus I don't want to add to the dog population when the pounds are so full.

Disclaimer: yes I did buy a pedigree because I could not find a poodle to adopt that my other dog wasn't afraid of. Yes I made sure he came from a registered breeder not a puppy farm.

[Wokko]

My boy's almost 2 and I'm about to get him done. Did the same research as you with the cancer (mainly bone cancer in early desexed males). Also didn't want him having obesity issues or weird behaviour from early desexing.

He's getting a bit boisterous now and while not serious, keeps wanting to take me when he gets fired up (more play than fighting, but he's having a crack).

Airedale terrier, so was also considering breeding from him, but don't think I'll worry about that now. Great dog and don't want him turning aggro.

[KenH]

We went via advice from the vet, I think if I recall it was done about 6 months old, first male lab we had was done about 2 to 3 years old.
But we have always went along with the vets advice.

[Skids]

I voted when the vet told me too. But she also told me to wait til he was at least 5 months, got him done at 5 months 1 week. My last male fathered the female I still have, he was done at 7, he Cocked his leg and marked territory and could be aggressive (mainly when he got older but after seeing him attack molly when I first bought her home I was always wary). Molly was done at about 6 months! I don't want an aggressive dog pissing everywhere! I feed him what the vets suggests for his health, I trust my vet. I should also say when She put Max to sleep she was only going to charge me for the injection and brought her nurse with her too. She also sent flowers to the house the next day.
Plus I don't want to add to the dog population when the pounds are so full.

Disclaimer: yes I did buy a pedigree because I could not find a poodle to adopt that my other dog wasn't afraid of. Yes I made sure he came from a registered breeder not a puppy farm.

Cool Jo, at least you waited 5 months, some do it at 8 weeks!

Re the bit I highlighted in your post - This is one of the spiels preached by the RSPCA & vets. But realistically, how many stray & intact male dogs do you see roaming the street these days? None!
Of course, back in the 70's and early 80's this was an issue, but today?

If you do desex your female early, you miss out on seeing the changes in her personality and behaviour; before, during and after her cycle. Pete becomes this clingy, cuddly and quiet girl for a few weeks, it's beautiful

[think positive]

So the opposite from women!!

Yeah I agree you don't see dogs roaming but there's still too many abandoned at pounds etc. I actively tried to adopt for two years before I lost my 16 year old but poodles get snapped up and having stairs ruled me out for two with rescue organizations, Cheers mate all good

[watt price tully]

Vets advice, got poor old Leo done at about 6 months. As for thunderstorms all pets get the frights: some more than others. If they're inside then no issue. If they're not then bring them in.

He lived 15 years: no bone cancer but had issues with his feet / toes / and much later a neurological condition that made him lose balance. If any of this was related to being neutered at 6/12 I'd be surprised.

There was no poll option for vets advice and at 6/12 'ish rather than asap so I didn't "vote"

[watt price tully]

I voted when the vet told me too. But she also told me to wait til he was at least 5 months, got him done at 5 months 1 week. My last male fathered the female I still have, he was done at 7, he Cocked his leg and marked territory and could be aggressive (mainly when he got older but after seeing him attack molly when I first bought her home I was always wary). Molly was done at about 6 months! I don't want an aggressive dog pissing everywhere! I feed him what the vets suggests for his health, I trust my vet. I should also say when She put Max to sleep she was only going to charge me for the injection and brought her nurse with her too. She also sent flowers to the house the next day.
Plus I don't want to add to the dog population when the pounds are so full.

Disclaimer: yes I did buy a pedigree because I could not find a poodle to adopt that my other dog wasn't afraid of. Yes I made sure he came from a registered breeder not a puppy farm.

Cool Jo, at least you waited 5 months, some do it at 8 weeks!

Re the bit I highlighted in your post - This is one of the spiels preached by the RSPCA & vets. But realistically, how many stray & intact male dogs do you see roaming the street these days? None!
Of course, back in the 70's and early 80's this was an issue, but today?

If you do desex your female early, you miss out on seeing the changes in her personality and behaviour; before, during and after her cycle. Pete becomes this clingy, cuddly and quiet girl for a few weeks, it's beautiful

The pounds are full especially regarding the "dumped" dogs. Illegal puppy farms are booming despite laws against them. I work close next to the Lort Smith Hospital & they have big issues with too many dogs. The other issue is affordability. It costs a fortune to be a ethical & moral "pet owner" and hard for people on fixed incomes.

[Skids]

Vets advice, got poor old Leo done at about 6 months. As for thunderstorms all pets get the frights: some more than others. If they're inside then no issue. If they're not then bring them in.

He lived 15 years: no bone cancer but had issues with his feet / toes / and much later a neurological condition that made him lose balance. If any of this was related to being neutered at 6/12 I'd be surprised.

There was no poll option for vets advice and at 6/12 'ish rather than asap so I didn't "vote"

Sorry, i thought i put - other, please explain.

I must add, I'm not saying either way is wrong or right. I might still get Pete done down the track.
What I'm suggesting is, people aren't given all the information to make the choice that they have to make.

It is a very invasive surgery and to put an immature, baby dog through that isn't my idea of being a moral and ethical dog owner. The dog should at least have a chance to mature.

The RSPCA and vets in Australia push an adgenda that is different to the rest if the civilized world. I wonder why that is?

[think positive]

Is it invasive though? My pup was done in 10 min flat, I held him til he was asleep, had him back in 2 hours, he was bouncing around the house the second he got home.


WPT your dead right about the cost being prohibitive and helping keep puppy farms going, and yet people don't realise that that extra $500 means you have less chance of expensive medical treatments down the track. My pup came with copies of the parents papers and medical certification re full scale testing on the parents. I also looked the breeder up on the Victorian register, and approved poodle breeder register. There are checks in place to certify they are not puppy farmers. I've had a poodle go blind on me early, and it's heart breaking, and cruel. The price of pure bred puppy's is ridiculous, and it should be regulated. Cross breeding designer dogs should also be outlawed, it's not good for the dog, too many health risks. I am on a lot of rescue face book pages, and I have donated for the medical care of many dogs, some of the stories are sickening. You should need a licence to have a dog. But then same for parents! People complain about the cost of adopting all the time, but the medical care is not cheap. Older dogs can be obtained a lot cheaper, but do the pound check the owners out? I have applied to adopt several dogs, and never even got an interview. I probably filled the paperwork out too honestly-a grumpy old very sick poodle probably didn't come across to well, and having stairs and no back yard for running is a problem unless you actually see how we are set up. In the past I've adopted two dogs from the lord smith home. Both had long healthy happy lives. If I had the right place I'd love to be the crazy dog lady.

My sister is a crazy cat lady, all adopted. My daughter saved a cat from the streets in Epping last Sunday, no tags, though with the injuries I'm guesssing they will put her down. Half her nose missing (looks to be eaten away by cancer) and bite marks, skin and bone, so sad.

With organisations like Oscars law animal welfare is improving, but there is a long way to go. One of the rescue centres I've donated to was very involved with the lord smith changing hands a year or so ago, and their attitudes have really changed, more to rescue, than as a kill centre. One pet at a time.

[ronrat]

You should see what is reality in Thailand. Roming street dogs with diseases and breeding at will. It is sickening. Only breeders should have desexed dogs. I let Tukky have 2 litters but when she was on heat she got out and the biggest and ugliest dog mated with her so I had he desexed the next day. Her daughter is 8 months old and will have the snip soon. A crossbreed and she can go and live on the farm if desexed and run around with lots of dogs and kids.

[watt price tully]

Vets advice, got poor old Leo done at about 6 months. As for thunderstorms all pets get the frights: some more than others. If they're inside then no issue. If they're not then bring them in.

He lived 15 years: no bone cancer but had issues with his feet / toes / and much later a neurological condition that made him lose balance. If any of this was related to being neutered at 6/12 I'd be surprised.

There was no poll option for vets advice and at 6/12 'ish rather than asap so I didn't "vote"

Sorry, i thought i put - other, please explain.

I must add, I'm not saying either way is wrong or right. I might still get Pete done down the track.
What I'm suggesting is, people aren't given all the information to make the choice that they have to make.

It is a very invasive surgery and to put an immature, baby dog through that isn't my idea of being a moral and ethical dog owner. The dog should at least have a chance to mature.

The RSPCA and vets in Australia push an adgenda that is different to the rest if the civilized world. I wonder why that is?

For males it is not particularly invasive surgery (at all) for surgery. For females a hysterectomy or an oophorectomy is particularly invasive. The female reproductive system is complex, the male is reproductive system is well like most males: simple

You can add a poll option of Vet advice: 5-6 months (or so) as opposed to Vet & ASAP.

To suggest that Vets & the RSPCA are conspiring seems a bit short sighted as either way Vets are still going to do the snip that is ASAP, 6/12 or a few years down the track.

[Skids]

You do need a license for a dog in WA Jo, $50/yr for an unsterilized dog and $10 for sterilised. (there's discrimination right there!)

As there's an alternative method to traditional speying, I'd say the former is invasive....

A laparoscopic spay or neuter is an alternative to the traditional method. It is less invasive and allows faster recovery time.

In a laparoscopic spay, your female dog will have her ovaries removed with a camera and vessel sealing device through a keyhole incision (ovariectomy). If your dog were to have a traditional spay, this involves an operation whereby a long incision is made on the midline of the tummy. The uterus and the ovaries are stitched with thread and are removed through this larger hole. The technical name for this operation is ovariohysterectomy.

http://www.villagevet.co.uk/laparoscopic-neutering/

THE BENEFITS AND DISADVANTAGES OF NEUTERING

Neutering is the removal of all or part of an animal's reproductive organs.
Vets and animals charities recommend the procedure to prevent the births of unwanted litters of puppies and cats.

Behaviours such as mounting and urine spraying, as well as some forms of male aggression, can be stopped because of the reduction in hormone levels in neutered animals.

There is weak evidence that spaying reduces the risk of mammary tumours in female dogs.

The risk of ovarian cancer and testicular cancer is removed, because the animals no longer have these organs.

However, animals are at risk of complications from the procedure itself.

Spaying and neutering cats may boost the risk of obesity, because a decrease in sex hormone levels is associated with an increase in food intake.

Researchers claim that neutered dogs are at a two-fold excess risk to develop osteosarcoma (bone cancer) as compared to intact dogs.

Studies of cardiac tumours in dogs showed that there was a 5 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma - cancer of blood vessel lining - in spayed females than intact females and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs as compared to intact males.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z4pLinsjkZ
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[think positive]

That's cheap! Not so much a licence, but registration, I paid &150 because Beau want desexed yet, and had to take the certificate back to the council to get a $120 refund, which I haven't got yet! I'll give them another week!
It's not discrimination though, it's an incentive to curb excessive breeding.
As for the risks, all except Max and Chloe were desexed under 6 months. Tootsie a mongrel from the lost dogs home, my childhood pet, died of old age, Mischief the bull terrier I rescued from the Lort Smith I put down at 11 when she suddenly started attacking my other dog for no reason, she was also shaking, and barking funny, I had toddlers and wasn't taking any chances, She died in my arms, I still miss her, she was a beautiful dog. Blue healer Jessie they thought she had kidney stones, it was cancer, she was 12. Chloe the first toy poodle, bred from Aussie champions apparently. (I knew nothing of puppy farms back then), she was given her wings at 12, she had been blind for over two years, not cataracts, she wasn't desexed until she was 3, she became overweight, had to really watch what we fed her. Max we got from a farm, (a real one, but no papers, I still was unaware) desexed at 7 after he fathered a littler of three, I have one of the puppies, was healthy until about 8, went bald, hundreds of dollars of tests, no cause, I reckon he's just a stress head, at 13 he developed CHD, heart disease, he survived three more years, and it was a dislocated back leg that never really healed that made me decide enough was enough in March this year, but after he was desexed he got narkier, and he always marked his territory. Molly his daughter is 9, her hair is just starting to thin. I had her bloods run this week, just to check her health. She had pancreatitis at three, it nearly killed her, but she hasn't missed a beat since! The vet says she has a tiny cataract in her eye, but she can still catch a ball mid air from 10 feet away. She was desexed young. And she is fit as a fiddle, it's only since we got Beau we realised we need to make her slow down a bit. She would chase a ball 24 hours a day if you let her.

My point being, how high is the risk? What age are you talking about that the diseases come in? I admit I got Beau the chop early because I don't want him getting to dominant over Molly, and peeing all over the bloody place! And he is such a sweetheart I'd like him to stay that way!

[think positive]

Got the cheque for the part refund for rego today. $120 back out of $150. Beau recovered within oh about 30 sec flat, he did wince a bit getting his stitches out! He's a nut. He's trained he well. When he pees or poos outside he comes looking for me and pesters me to follow him, he take me outside, wags at the spot and goes to the laundry bench where the snacks are! Hubby likes to give him empty yogurt cartons to lick, so he forever has a sticky face. Ran out of time to bath him today, was in the shower this arvo, he stuck his head in, so I grabbed him and gave him a shower too! used my extra body conditioner on him (cruelty and parabin free of course!) he smells divine and he's all shiny soft and fluffy!