Gun laws in USA??

[think positive]

So sad, we drove right passed it last year, going from the PA speedway to the Abby Lee Dance Studio, on the way to Niagara Falls, real iron mill town, RIP

and may the shooter die a painful death and rot in hell

[David]

[thesoretoothsayer]

The Tree of Life shooter criticized Trump for not being racist or anti-Semitic enough.

Trump's daughter is a Jewish convert.
His son-in-law is Jewish.
He moved the American embassy to Jerusalem to the applause of the Jewish state.
He is considered by the Israeli government to be a "true friend of israel".
And the shooter considered Trump a Jewish puppet.

But yeah, he's definitely an anti-semite who inspired the murder of Jews.

[David]

[MJ23]

^ This is why Trump won and is constantly underestimated.

Dems need to be better, think better and understand both pov to become a credible alternative.

America and the Tump admin needs a strong and credible opposition.

[think positive]

Trump did not put the gun in the gunmans hands, he did that himself and chose to take innocent lives.

Certainly he needs to do something about gun control, but so does every politician in the US. The guy obviously has serious mental health challenges, he should not be able to get his hands on a water pistol, let alone something capable of taking so many lives so quickly.

We have had the personal responsibility conversation many times.

The only thing we ever agree on is that guns suck.

[David]

^ This isn't about gun control, TP (well, it is, so much as all of these mass shootings in the US are, but that wasn't the subject of my post). It's about a politician being deliberately negligent in order to win votes, and winding up with blood on his hands as a result.

There are only really two possibilities here: either Trump doesn't realise that his rhetoric and that of his supporters and enablers is leading to increasing mobilisation of the far-right in America and increasing acts of violence, in which case incidents like this will keep happening; or he does realise and considers incidents like this just the collateral damage of a successful electoral strategy.

[thesoretoothsayer]

statements to their logical conclusion...

This kind of reasoning allows anyone to "join the dots" between what someone actually says and the motives they wish to assign to that person.
Sanders criticises the GOP. Bernie Bro James Hodgkinson takes his "statements to their logical conclusion..." and attempts to assassinate a group of Republican senators. Bernie's fault?
The Greens attack the Australian Christian Lobby during the gay marriage debate. Jaden Duong takes their "statements to their logical conclusion..." and tries to car bomb the ACL headquarters in Canberra. The Greens fault?
The Beatles release the White Album and sing about Piggies and Helter Skelter. Charles Manson takes their "statements to their logical conclusion..." and orders a race war. The Beatles fault?
You attack TERFs on this board, I take your "statements to their logical conclusion..." and murder a bunch of feminists. Your fault?

[David]

It's not rocket science. We all know what 'scaremongering' means. If you're telling people the truth about something like climate change and not using irresponsible rhetoric in the process, then of course it's not your fault if some radical environmentalist decides to assassinate the head of Exxon. If, on the other hand, you're deliberately and strategically fanning the flames of anti-immigrant sentiment with falsehoods and exaggerations in order to get votes, in the process knowingly further aiding the radicalisation of angry right-wing racists with guns, then yes, you are at least somewhat responsible for the acts of violence from political extremists that follow.

Forgive me if I'm not sure about your sincerity or whether you're just trolling, but I find it hard to believe that we've reached a point in which people seriously don't comprehend the possibility of a link between inflammatory political rhetoric and political violence. Do you actually think that Trump's finger needs to be on the trigger for him to deserve any blame for this? Or do you just want to hit me with 100 more strained devil's-advocate analogies to get reckless, xenophobia-promoting political leaders off the hook?

There's a perfect word for these tactics: apologism.

[MJ23]

^ again, this gets Trump re-elected.

[thesoretoothsayer]

Does Trump use intemperate language? Yes.
Is Trump contributing to a poisoned political atmosphere in the US? Definitely. But so are the Democrats and the legacy media (Fox, CNN etc.)
Is Trump responsible for a nutter with a gun murdering people? No.

in the process knowingly further aiding the radicalisation of angry right-wing racists with guns

Your proof of Trump knowingly causing radicalisation is?

There's a perfect word for these tactics: apologism.

There's a perfect word for your tactics: jumping to conclusions.

[David]

[watt price tully]

Well he's not a Trump supporter, maybe he's an antisemetic democrat kook.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/s ... index.html

Nah he's definitely right wing. That is beyound debate. I saw a photo of his car laden (not bin laden) with stickers and posters that would make the KKK proud.

Left wing nutters usually go after the bigger end of town.

You know the one's: I hunt & I vote.....

The only thing you hunt with Glocks (of which he had a collection) are people. Anyhoo, the Democrats aren't exactly left wing anyway. The 2 party system over there is right and further right.

That's true to a point. However, banning white males from owning guns especially right wing males as they seem to be the vast majority of killers / mass shooters is a good way to go to minimize the problem.

[thesoretoothsayer]

I mean, it's right here in this case if you're able to see it

This killer was able to see the migrant caravan as a jewish conspiracy to overthrow the white race. The fact that he, like you, was able to "join the dots" to come to a conclusion doesn't make his conclusion correct.

[watt price tully]

That Trump and his admin / cronies have created the conditons necessary for these type of incidents to occur that is, the mass shooting in the synagogue and the pipe bombs etc is not even a debating point.

However to call him racist only gives him ammuntion.

To say that his daughter has coverted to Judaism & his son in law is jewish & moving the embassy to Jerusalem is a basis to say he is not responsible in any way for violence perpetrated against Jews is not only thick but serves as a deflection of his adminstrations (such that it is) role in creating a hostile environment for Jews.

Jews are not a homogeneous group for starters. They generally vote Democrat in the main although this has been changing slowly.

Does one really think that it is accidental that there have never been more sustained & increasing acts of anti-semitic violence in the US since Trump was on the scene? FFS. It has occured & has been enabled by Trump et al.

Trumps very late comments on Charlotteville were equivocal and provided encouragement to neo-nazi and other extremist rabble simply because he equivocated.

The other main issue has been the attacks on George Soros: they are classically anti-semitic & used by Trumps supporters and other right wing nutters across the globe from Trump supporters, Muslim groups, many right wing alleged christian groups etc, Dr Mahatir of Malaysia and but not limited to the extreme right wing head of Hungary.