May 18th Federal Election

[pietillidie]

I suppose, in that he’s marginally to the left of Genghis Khan, which counts as moderate in the Liberal Party these days.

If you have a moment, what are his worst policies? Are they more inaction and culture war hot air, or are they actively regressive?

[think positive]

^

It's not that labor seem to have lost for me - yes I would always vote for them in the lower house because my beliefs are aligned and don't think an independent vote is a vote well cast - that obviously depends but I will always vote for the party in the Senate that represent my hope my ideals. I am hopeful that the results of the Senate voting will enable Live Export to be abolished - I really really want this to happen!

People seem to me to be so entitled and want everything - we are lucky I suppose not much impacts us - but we vote as if it might.

But you know what no more - suck it up - you voted for it you deal with it! Except for animals who have no bloody say - for all of them - we fight on!!

I usually vote liberal, but the last two elections I voted labour solely for animal rights reasons, this one was all about live exports, hopefully there is enough independents or however it works to end it.

[David]

I suppose, in that he’s marginally to the left of Genghis Khan, which counts as moderate in the Liberal Party these days.

If you have a moment, what are his worst policies? Are they more inaction and culture war hot air, or are they actively regressive?

Quick list (very much off the top of my head):

Maintaining the offshore torture regime (which admittedly Labor probably weren’t going to do much to fix)
Capricious deportations of long-term residents
Continued inaction on climate change
Subsidising fossil fuel mines like Adani
Preserving the negative gearing rort
Ever more draconian and local-tech-industry-wrecking “national security” legislation

And I’m sure they have some wonderful things in store for us over the next three years.

[pietillidie]

^Unfortunately, under conditions of imaginary siege few of those things concern enough voters. The interests of the powerless and young people are easy prey when mindsets take a dark turn, as happens within families.

The best you can do for now is lean against the worst excesses until the tide turns generationally or the Darwinian game of self protection becomes obviously counterproductive. The fielding of a hopeless opposition choice in Shorten during a moment of social conservatism makes a modest loss a good result. This is even more the case when you think that virtually every election is fought against massive wealth interests, the defensive pensioned and privately-insured, the hate vote, and an ever-expanding fearful older vote. General social quality and future costs such as environmental destruction will never in a million years rate as significant to these groups.

The polls also aren't capturing the strength of the closet fear vote; unfortunately, this made Shorten look more plausible than the cardboard shell he is, fooling the ALP into backing him. (Or perhaps like the Glibs the ALP consists of nothing but cardboard cutouts mouthing talking points, so it doesn't matter who is chosen).

In any case, it is virtually impossible to sate the nagging sense of historical decline which is gripping the swing vote cohort, causing it to scapegoat easy targets and retreat to tribalism (fundamentalist Christianity, anachronistic rural sub-cultures, white nationalist groups, and 'Left is evil' Facebook culture warriors are good examples of this). Social media then makes people's heads explode with fear and rage, motivating these groups to get out and vote.

The fact is that some people are reacting to the disorientation of rapid world change in this way, and I doubt they will make peace with reality for a long while yet.

The future will clearly read that there was massive denial dealing not with immigration, which will be viewed as a pre-requisite for future social and political capacity in a brown world, but with productivity, the wealth gap as a marker of social access, the quality of jobs and work, the environment (including urban environments), the protection of the vulnerable as a test of commitment to stable moral principles, and the thankless task of encouraging developing countries towards success, thereby underwriting peace and prosperity to come.

Fortunately, a good swathe of younger people get this intuitively, so assuming cities rather than rural communes keep expanding, you would hope it's only a matter of time before these things bite at elections.

[ronrat]

What gets me is how health, education and safety issues become entangled in federal politics when essentially they are state matters although the Federal government sets some agendas and funding. External issues such as immigration, Defence, foreign aid and policy, and economic direction (eg exchange rates) are federal issues that get ignored. The federal pollies even get involved with local public transport issues. The Australian voting public is getting treated like mugs.

You can have all your politically correct Q and A panels and whatever but every 20 something twitterer has 4 grandparents and 2 parents who are saying we want a return on our investment. We don't care about things that don't effect us because we are living in a caravan in Hervey bay or about to retire in 5 years time and not interested in spending 20000 dollars putting in solar panels and things like taht tat will take 30 years to get our money back.

My folks are pensioners living in the wide bay electorate and were convinced by the state labor government to put solar panlels on their house. a year after doing it the power company said they would stop giving
rebates for power going into the grid and the government agreed contract allows them to do so. They must however still continue to feed into the system. They now pay water rates despite being on tank water because of the state government enforced council amalgamations. The grey water rebate scheme was unfunded so nobody got paid . They feel betrayed and given the amount of retirees stretching along the Qld coast it is no surprise what happened. Who do think they are going to trust. The state ALP has cost the federal ALP victory. The Adani mine thing was just seen as another "Eff you rural Queensland, we don't care".

[Wokko]

And still the left are here sneering down their noses at those with different views and life experiences. You lot never learn.

[stui magpie]

I suppose, in that he’s marginally to the left of Genghis Khan, which counts as moderate in the Liberal Party these days.

I'll take that as a disappointed vent, my reading is he is a genuine moderate.

If it makes you feel any better, it seems Fraser Anning has been shown where the Exit is to the Senate.

[Pies4shaw]

I don't get why people care either way. ALP v LNP is a like a Carlton v Richmond Grand Final. You'd like the earth to swallow them both up just before half time. The only things that really matter about this process from the last few months are that:

- Abbott is gone
- Anning is gone
- Dutton isn't PM
- Shorten is gone.

These are all great victories for decent people.

[Morrigu]

I usually vote liberal, but the last two elections I voted labour solely for animal rights reasons, this one was all about live exports, hopefully there is enough independents or however it works to end it.

Yes hopefully TP

[David]

[partypie]

What gets me is how health, education and safety issues become entangled in federal politics when essentially they are state matters although the Federal government sets some agendas and funding. External issues such as immigration, Defence, foreign aid and policy, and economic direction (eg exchange rates) are federal issues that get ignored. The federal pollies even get involved with local public transport issues. The Australian voting public is getting treated like mugs.

You can have all your politically correct Q and A panels and whatever but every 20 something twitterer has 4 grandparents and 2 parents who are saying we want a return on our investment. We don't care about things that don't effect us because we are living in a caravan in Hervey bay or about to retire in 5 years time and not interested in spending 20000 dollars putting in solar panels and things like taht tat will take 30 years to get our money back.

My folks are pensioners living in the wide bay electorate and were convinced by the state labor government to put solar panlels on their house. a year after doing it the power company said they would stop giving
rebates for power going into the grid and the government agreed contract allows them to do so. They must however still continue to feed into the system. They now pay water rates despite being on tank water because of the state government enforced council amalgamations. The grey water rebate scheme was unfunded so nobody got paid . They feel betrayed and given the amount of retirees stretching along the Qld coast it is no surprise what happened. Who do think they are going to trust. The state ALP has cost the federal ALP victory. The Adani mine thing was just seen as another "Eff you rural Queensland, we don't care".

The antics of Dave Kelly (WA Minister responsible for the fishing industry) frightened the bejesus out of people with his ridiculous proposal to partly nationalise the WA crayfishing industry and people who might have otherwise voted Labor didn't.

[roar]

I don't get why people care either way. ALP v LNP is a like a Carlton v Richmond Grand Final. You'd like the earth to swallow them both up just before half time. The only things that really matter about this process from the last few months are that:

- Abbott is gone
- Anning is gone
- Dutton isn't PM
- Shorten is gone.

These are all great victories for decent people.

Well said, P4s. If only Dutton had gone the way of Abbott, it would have been a magnificent result but alas, Queensland exists.

[Pies4shaw]

I suppose, in that he’s marginally to the left of Genghis Khan, which counts as moderate in the Liberal Party these days.

If you have a moment, what are his worst policies? Are they more inaction and culture war hot air, or are they actively regressive?

Quick list (very much off the top of my head):

Maintaining the offshore torture regime (which admittedly Labor probably weren’t going to do much to fix)
Capricious deportations of long-term residents
Continued inaction on climate change
Subsidising fossil fuel mines like Adani
Preserving the negative gearing rort
Ever more draconian and local-tech-industry-wrecking “national security” legislation

And I’m sure they have some wonderful things in store for us over the next three years.

I appreciate that you probably don't want to hear this, right now - but I'm going to say it anyway.

I do not negatively gear and I never have. I do, however, think that it is decidedly unhelpful to refer to something people do in large numbers because successive ALP and LNP administrations have actively encouraged them to do it as a "rort".

The ALP has tried to change the goal posts on some things (as also with superannuation) by calling them rorts and demonising people who have done precisely what past Governments successively have almost demanded them to do.

It's just political stupidity to attack quite ordinary people over things they were pressed to do. It isn't like someone left a loophole and whole lot of people took advantage - it wasn't a loophole; it was a deliberate fiscal policy preference.

Obviously, housing affordability issues need to be addressed but it's probably good to try to find a way to do something about it that doesn't alienate your own natural constituency. The ALP is a party of the middle class. It might like to pretend that it represents "strugglers" - but neither it nor the LNP do.

What most countries do to control housing affordability, first, is to limit speculative foreign investment. Australia used to do that. It no longer does. Paradoxically, one of the things that helped reduce prices in our capital-city residential housing markets was a Chinese policy decision a few months ago to limit capital outflows. Almost overnight, houses in the outer Eastern suburbs of Melbourne that had been expected to fetch prices of $3.5 M+ lost 20% and more of their value because the necessary foreign-capital switching could not occur and the foreign-investment market dried up. I'm not expecting people who have nothing to feel sorry for people whose net wealth dropped from $3M to $2M because the value of their housing declined - but none of those people were corrupt or rorting: they were just doing what our fiscal policy encouraged/directed that they do. The world is full enough of people who don't mean well and are bad - it is extraordinarily stupid politics to alienate ordinary people. Guilting 10% (or whatever the number is) of your potential voter base and asking that they accept that they are dysfunctional sociopaths is probably not the way to win a popularity contest.

[Pies4shaw]

I don't get why people care either way. ALP v LNP is a like a Carlton v Richmond Grand Final. You'd like the earth to swallow them both up just before half time. The only things that really matter about this process from the last few months are that:

- Abbott is gone
- Anning is gone
- Dutton isn't PM
- Shorten is gone.

These are all great victories for decent people.

Well said, P4s. If only Dutton had gone the way of Abbott, it would have been a magnificent result but alas, Queensland exists.

Yes, it used to have a reason to exist, called "The Great Barrier Reef". Once that's gone, as it apparently soon will be - I suppose we'll still need mangoes - but we'll be growing them in the Pentland Hills so Queensland will be an entirely pointless place. They'll still probably manufacture white sheets and scissors for exports - but I suspect they'll be a net drain on the rest of us.

[David]