Trump abandons the Kurds

[watt price tully]

<split from Post-Inauguration Trump thread>

The US is pulling out of parts of Syria leaving the Kurds to be murdered by the Sultan of Turkey the arch Islamo-fascist Erdogan.

Thanks Donald Trump: Making Russia; China; Iran, and now Turkey great again.

[Wokko]

US Betraying the Kurds like its 1991. Scummy.

[roar]

Had a feeling the Kurd betrayal wasn't far off. Doesn't stop it being a real shitty act, though. Phuckers.

[Wokko]

I'm somewhat torn on it, I mean the US getting their troops out of the Middle East is a good thing generally, I'd be all for a total repatriation of US forces. That said, the Kurds again helped the US and Syria defeat ISIS and the US presence was stopping Turkey from acting. Syria can't defend its territory from a Turkish invasion, they're still cleaning up the remnants of a long civil war and they may not be all that keen on an autonomous Kurdish province either.

All round a shitty situation, but surely the US could've left a few hundred men in a base to act as a tripwire against invasion like the troops in Korea.

[roar]

Yep, agree with all of that, wokko.

[David]

[stui magpie]

^

If we give them their own independent state, isn't that just another Israel?

Give a persecuted minority their own chunk of land, watch as others gather round claiming it was theirs?

[David]

[thesoretoothsayer]

US Betraying the Kurds like its 1991. Scummy.

Valuable lesson for any group that bases it's defence strategy around the idea of "don't worry, the Americans will come to our rescue". Thank god we're not that stupid.

[stui magpie]

Not quite. The creation of Israel required the forcible evacuation of the substantial Palestinian population that lived within the new country’s borders, an injustice that, of course, continues to reverberate to this day;

You consider it an injustice, I compare it to the compulsory acquisition of land from the latest land holders who had no more historic right to it than anyone else.

[pietillidie]

^A compulsory acquisition of land? That's an extremely revealing analogy which assumes a legitimate authority made a tough but legitimate decision for the benefit of all. Way to keep the dehumanisation ball that started the whole business in play.

Back to the Narcissist-in-Chief, rather than doing his job and minimising corrupt and imperialistic interference abroad, his brain hurts and his Fox viewing time is being interrupted, so he simply abandons vulnerable allies. Quality to the last.

[stui magpie]

Post WWII a number of decisions were made about borders and countries. Korea being removed from Japan and being partitioned was one, the creation of Israel was another.

Which particular dehumanization ball are you referring to? The Nazi's attempted genocide of Jews or something else?

[pietillidie]

Post WWII a number of decisions were made about borders and countries. Korea being removed from Japan and being partitioned was one, the creation of Israel was another.

Which particular dehumanization ball are you referring to? The Nazi's attempted genocide of Jews or something else?

It goes well beyond the Nazis. Jewish folks have been dehumanised forever and a day by ordinary people much closer to home. Rather than looking in the mirror and confronting the actual cause (an old but ugly mix of ignorance, racism, colonialism, xenophobia, bigotry, opportunism and outright thuggery), the solution to the 'Jewish problem' was to double-down by dehumanising yet another group.

Think about it: if Jews were considered the lowest of the low, just how much lower must an entirely unconsidered group be? The analogy you employed has this original sin baked into it. There was no well-meaning umpire acting for the common good; you can accept this and the existence of the state of Israel at the same time.

To add insult to injury, you've called the removal of Japan from Korea the removal of Korea from Japan!

I don't want to argue for the sake of it; you're more sensible than me most of the time anyhow. But you can't dismiss complex relationships, deep-seated feelings and massive present-day repercussions as the contingencies of history. These might be pain-in-the-arse matters that impose themselves on our living rooms from some remote location, but that doesn't justify throwing our hands in the air, abandoning fairness and siding with those would benefit us most. That way lies further pogroms; in fact, that's a neat segue back to Trump and the Kurds.

[stui magpie]

Post WWII a number of decisions were made about borders and countries. Korea being removed from Japan and being partitioned was one, the creation of Israel was another.

Which particular dehumanization ball are you referring to? The Nazi's attempted genocide of Jews or something else?

It goes well beyond the Nazis. Jewish folks have been dehumanised forever and a day by ordinary people much closer to home. Rather than looking in the mirror and confronting the actual cause (an old but ugly mix of ignorance, racism, colonialism, xenophobia, bigotry, opportunism and outright thuggery), the solution to the 'Jewish problem' was to double-down by dehumanising yet another group.

Think about it: if Jews were considered the lowest of the low, just how much lower must an entirely unconsidered group be? The analogy you employed has this original sin baked into it. There was no well-meaning umpire acting for the common good; you can accept this and the existence of the state of Israel at the same time.

To add insult to injury, you've called the removal of Japan from Korea the removal of Korea from Japan!

I don't want to argue for the sake of it; you're more sensible than me most of the time anyhow. But you can't dismiss complex relationships, deep-seated feelings and massive present-day repercussions as the contingencies of history. These might be pain-in-the-arse matters that impose themselves on our living rooms from some remote location, but that doesn't justify throwing our hands in the air, abandoning fairness and siding with those would benefit us most. That way lies further pogroms; in fact, that's a neat segue back to Trump and the Kurds.

I'm not going to argue about Israel, you have your view I have mine and they're different. The geographic area referred to as Palestine has been through more sets of hands than a $2 hooker at the docks so I don't see how the people who resided there in 1947 could have any claim to continuity of possession or be considered dehumanised at being relocated.

I will pick you up on the Japan/Korea one though as you've misread my intention.

Korea was removed from Japan in that it was taken off them, out of their control. It was considered their possession, it was removed from them. Now that may have had the effect of removing Japanese influence and people from Korea, but my statement remains true,

[Wokko]

Palestine is the Holy Land and should be returned to the Crusader Orders immediately.