David Warner

[K]

Well, there is no great batsman in the Oz batting lineup. Possibly a great bowler in the making, though, but we'll have to wait and see.

When you consider Warner came out of nowhere for T20, he hasn't done badly in real batting, though of course he comes with non-batting baggage.

[Pies4shaw]

And the highest Test score ever by an Australian batsman against a first-tier Test nation.

[luvdids]

Well, there is no great batsman in the Oz batting lineup.

Bradman and Smith have the two highest averages in Test history for those who have played more than 20 innings, with Smith second only to Bradman.

https://7news.com.au/sport/cricket/stev ... d-c-582733

[Donny]

His Test average has recovered, from his disastrous Ashes series. It's back up to the high 40s. 48.58

46.23 before his 335 n.o.

Last 12 innings - 95 from 10 Ashes innings, plus 154 & 335* - 584 runs @ 53.09

[K]

Well, there is no great batsman in the Oz batting lineup.

Bradman and Smith have the two highest averages in Test history for those who have played more than 20 innings, with Smith second only to Bradman.

It's because the pitches are so flat, it's killing the bowlers. We've been through this before. There's a whole thread here on the death of Test batting. It's a death spiral, in which administrators order the pitches to be flatter and flatter to make up for batting incompetence, but then the batsmen never improve their batting, so the problem gets worse and worse. Maybe you should read some of that discussion.

And Smith's average is inflated over that background of incompetence for many reasons.

[luvdids]

So, using that argument, shouldn't all batsmen have inflated averages??

It's the same as when people say scoring runs was easier in Bradman's day. Oh really? If it was so easy, why wasn't everyone doing it?

I've read some of that discussion. Still believe it's laughable you claim there are no great batsmen in our team.

[Pies4shaw]

Against Pakistan, Warner is POTM, POTS and possibly should also be POTUS.

[K]

So, using that argument, shouldn't all batsmen have inflated averages??
...

Err... no. The most frightening issue is the death of Test batting. If the batsmen remain the same, and batting conditions get easier, then all their averages will be inflated. What's happening is the conditions are deliberately made easier as a reaction to the batsmen getting worse, so if you can just be less incompetent than your peers your average will be inflated.

It's not a matter of just "saying" something. There is overwhelming evidence.

[K]

... and possibly should also be POTUS.

Would he press the red button??

[Pies4shaw]

Warner’s just made the highest score ever in a Test at the Adelaide Oval and the second highest Australian Test score of all time (actually the highest, if you disregard Hayden’s fine knock against Zimbabwe, an opposition that was not of the requisite standard) and you want to look for evidence of declining Test batting standards. You’re talking to the wind with that one.

[K]

Just about every cricket journo and commentator acknowledges the declining Test batting standards. It must be literally at least a dozen I've heard since the start of the English summer, with zero who've claimed the opposite. That doesn't on its own mean it must be true, but you post as if I'm the only one who says it. I have no idea how you don't hear them all say variations of the same thing. Do you have some special filter on your TV, radio and internet?

(I'm not sure what you're implying about Warner's innings. Obviously the pitch was very flat, and the bowling very poor.)


All this wouldn't matter so much except for one thing: the only way to make this just a temporary decline is for everyone to admit it's occurred. If we pretend Test batting is great, that's the surest way to ensure it dies forever.

[Donny]

We must be watching different channels, K.

I've not heard what you're referring to, re. declining batting skill levels - apart from the bleeding obvious. ie. The effect of T20s and, to a lesser extent, ODIs, on batting techniques.

That said, Test batsmen are still getting centuries. In fact, doubles and even a triple.

May I remind you, the greatest Test batsman and a present day player being named by some as the next best didn't/don't have perfect, or even good batting technique.

[K]

Well, you definitely didn't watch the Ashes coverage, Donny. (You can explain more, but I gather you don't get FTA TV, right?) That's where a lot of the best quotes come from.

Holding just said (well, he said many things, but this is one) "T20 has ruined cricket!"

Luckily, some of these quotes appear in the over 100 pages of Ashes coverage here.


There are so many examples that picking out one feels totally random, but on radio in the lead-up to this Test, they were interviewing Cummins and expressing the hope that the pink ball might make it a little less unfair for the bowlers.

[Pies4shaw]

Warner now has the second highest average of all Australian Test openers, all-time. Hayden is at the top on 50.73, Warner is on 48.58.

That puts him ahead of, eg, Ponsford, Lawry, Woodfull, Langer, Taylor, all of whom could bat a bit.

[Pies4shaw]

And he has the third-highest Test average in Tests played in Australia (66.46) of all players who have played more than 10 Tests in Australia for any country, behind only Bradman and Bradsmith.