Chinese imperialism and future Australian sovereignty

[pietillidie]

No, the misdirection starts with your naive swallowing of the news release.

My patience with undisciplined knee-jerk hysteria and reckless reactions is over. From Iraq to Abbott, climate change denial, Brexit and Trump, there are reasons for the decline. And I'm not living the rest of my life in conditions of socioeconomic decline.

It all starts with the unthinking reaction to things like this. How widespread is cyber espionage, Stui? How do other regional countries deal with it? What is our involvement? How do you propose dealing with it? You've had a decade to think about it already because it's not new.

[stui magpie]

Well the starting point is, if another country is going to try to hack you, they aint your friend. So recognise that they're a pack of cnuts and trust them as far as you could fart a shot putt.

[Wokko]

No, the misdirection starts with your naive swallowing of the news release.

My patience with undisciplined knee-jerk hysteria and reckless reactions is over. From Iraq to Abbott, climate change denial, Brexit and Trump, there are reasons for the decline. And I'm not living the rest of my life in conditions of socioeconomic decline.

It all starts with the unthinking reaction to things like this. How widespread is cyber espionage, Stui? How do other regional countries deal with it? What is our involvement? How do you propose dealing with it? You've had a decade to think about it already because it's not new.

Newsflash, nothing we say on here means shit. I could advocate for an Australian Pacific Empire and literally nothing would change. Nobody in power gives a shit what we say on here, Facebook, Twitter, whatever. You act like someone's opinion on Nicks is moving some international policy, it's not. Talk to people like you're having a beer at the pub, not like we're deciding when to torpedo the Chinese Aircraft Carrier.

[David]

^

I'm sure you'd think it hilarous if your bank account was emptied. You make bullshit privacy arguments about our government and the Covid phone app, but are happy to brush off an attack by a genuine authoritarian government.

Federal Government agencies believe that China is the nation behind ongoing cyber attacks on Australian institutions, including hospitals and state-owned utilities, in recent months.

Key points:
China is believed to be behind the wide-ranging attacks on Australian governments and businesses
The Prime Minister says there have not been large-scale personal data breaches
The Government will not say publicly which state is behind the cyber attack
Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Australian organisations, including governments and businesses, were currently being targeted by a sophisticated foreign "state-based" hacker.

While Mr Morrison said the Government would not take the formal step of publicly naming which state, senior sources confirmed China is believed to be behind the malicious attacks.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-19/ ... s/12372470

After the nonsense of Russiagate (hence my "memes" reference), I’m prepared to express some skepticism over the importance of these little online sorties. A few DDoS attacks on government websites here and there aren’t new and aren’t that big a deal, and certainly not worth freaking out over. Maybe it could get more serious, but I’ll keep my powder dry until concrete harm has been established, as opposed to mild annoyance.

By way of comparison, this happened a year ago and was quickly forgotten:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-18/ ... s/10821170

[Wokko]

Well the starting point is, if another country is going to try to hack you, they aint your friend. So recognise that they're a pack of cnuts and trust them as far as you could fart a shot putt.

I'd say a cyber attack is no different that hostile espionage, it's an act of war. I'm certainly cheering on our Indian friends right now in their weird mediveal hand to hand war with China.

[pietillidie]

7 minutes ago populist Australia was hating on India. Remember that? How quickly things change!

[pietillidie]

Well the starting point is, if another country is going to try to hack you, they aint your friend. So recognise that they're a pack of cnuts and trust them as far as you could fart a shot putt.

Well yes, I agree with that. I don't trust any national entity as a starting point anyway.

Where to from there has always been the question. International treaties with a mix of competing interests held in tension are the best macro-political structures, because they keep things diplomatic and optimistic, which is a good holding pattern. Then, openings arise for change as events unfold and larger transitions take place (such as a generational shift in China).

On practical cyber espionage strategy, I'd be curious to know how South Korea and Japan deal with it for starters.

[Wokko]

Well the starting point is, if another country is going to try to hack you, they aint your friend. So recognise that they're a pack of cnuts and trust them as far as you could fart a shot putt.

I'd say a cyber attack is no different that hostile espionage, it's an act of war. I'm certainly cheering on our Indian friends right now in their weird mediveal hand to hand war with China.

7 minutes ago populist Australia was hating on India. Remember that? How quickly things change!

What did I miss? There really aren't any populists in Australia since Clive went of the deep end.

[roar]

7 minutes ago populist Australia was hating on India. Remember that? How quickly things change!

We'll get back to that once they finish fighting China.

[think positive]

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coronavi ... spartandhp

the bits about Australia are correct, so how much of the rest of it is?

[stui magpie]

Interesting

Counter-espionage agency ASIO is conducting a sweeping investigation into allegations Chinese government agents have infiltrated the office of a NSW Labor politician to influence Australian politics.

Multiple sources aware of the foreign interference investigation said it was scrutinising the office of NSW Labor MP Shaoquett Moselmane as part of one of the most significant inquiries in recent ASIO history.

As part of the inquiry, the federal police raided properties linked to Mr Moselmane on Friday morning, searching for evidence to support allegations of a Chinese government plot unfolding on Australian soil.

The sources said if sufficient evidence was found, the inquiry could ultimately result in an Australian and world first: a prosecution for foreign interference offences arising from an alleged covert Chinese Communist Party plot to influence a serving politician.

Potentially VERY interesting.

Who is this guy?

Since 2018, Mr Moselmane and his part-time staffer John Zhang have attracted media and political scrutiny over their support for Chinese government positions and criticisms of Australian government policy.

Mr Moselmane resigned as assistant president of the NSW Legislative Council after the Herald and The Age revealed how he wrote in an essay for a Chinese University that "the obsolete scum of white Australia" had re-emerged, attacked Australia's "mainstream media" as anti-Chinese and praised Beijing's leadership during the coronavirus crisis. The February essay mirrored Chinese state propaganda and was translated into Chinese by his staffer, Mr Zhang.

Hmmmmmmm

I'm sure everything will be able to be sorted out sensibly, or not.

The revelations of the ASIO probe are likely to trigger a political storm, given Labor has already weathered intense criticism over Mr Moselmane and his office's apparent disdain for bipartisan reforms to curb Chinese government interference in Australia and the upper house MP's unabashed praise of Beijing.

It is also likely to dramatically inflame tensions between China and Australia, which have plunged to a new low point following the federal government's calls for an inquiry into Beijing's handling of the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/nsw/ ... 556f6.html

Always said, NSW politicians, the best money can buy.

[watt price tully]

Interesting

Counter-espionage agency ASIO is conducting a sweeping investigation into allegations Chinese government agents have infiltrated the office of a NSW Labor politician to influence Australian politics.

Multiple sources aware of the foreign interference investigation said it was scrutinising the office of NSW Labor MP Shaoquett Moselmane as part of one of the most significant inquiries in recent ASIO history.

As part of the inquiry, the federal police raided properties linked to Mr Moselmane on Friday morning, searching for evidence to support allegations of a Chinese government plot unfolding on Australian soil.

The sources said if sufficient evidence was found, the inquiry could ultimately result in an Australian and world first: a prosecution for foreign interference offences arising from an alleged covert Chinese Communist Party plot to influence a serving politician.

Potentially VERY interesting.

Who is this guy?

Since 2018, Mr Moselmane and his part-time staffer John Zhang have attracted media and political scrutiny over their support for Chinese government positions and criticisms of Australian government policy.

Mr Moselmane resigned as assistant president of the NSW Legislative Council after the Herald and The Age revealed how he wrote in an essay for a Chinese University that "the obsolete scum of white Australia" had re-emerged, attacked Australia's "mainstream media" as anti-Chinese and praised Beijing's leadership during the coronavirus crisis. The February essay mirrored Chinese state propaganda and was translated into Chinese by his staffer, Mr Zhang.

Hmmmmmmm

I'm sure everything will be able to be sorted out sensibly, or not.

The revelations of the ASIO probe are likely to trigger a political storm, given Labor has already weathered intense criticism over Mr Moselmane and his office's apparent disdain for bipartisan reforms to curb Chinese government interference in Australia and the upper house MP's unabashed praise of Beijing.

It is also likely to dramatically inflame tensions between China and Australia, which have plunged to a new low point following the federal government's calls for an inquiry into Beijing's handling of the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/nsw/ ... 556f6.html

Always said, NSW politicians, the best money can buy.

The slobs brother was interviewed by TV (channel 7 I think) as he was trying to get into his car blaming zionists for this (he had a strong Arabic accent) he was well dressed in relatively fashionable clothes looking like an older spiv.

Of course, its the Sino Zio nexus.

I suspect it was some reference to those trying to get rid of his brother from the ALP

[stui magpie]

Seriously, screw this mob.

China's Foreign Ministry has escalated its attacks on Australia, accusing the Federal Government of conducting espionage in China and calling tabloid claims of Australian spying the "tip of the iceberg".

Key points:
China has thrown weight behind state media reports on alleged Australian spying
A Chinese tabloid says authorities busted an Australian spying operation two years ago
China's Foreign Ministry said Australia "[plays] the part of the victim" and peddles rumours
Yesterday, the Chinese Government-owned Global Times published a story alleging that Chinese authorities had disrupted an Australian spy operation two years ago.

The nationalistic paper also posted pictures of items which it said had been seized, including cash, a compass and a map of Shanghai.

Australian government officials ridiculed the claims in private, while Prime Minister Scott Morrison dismissed questions about the article by saying: "I wouldn't be relying on Chinese state media for your sources."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/ ... g/12405842

Just call it, fvck the excuses, wipe this mob like a dirty arse.

I'd be more than happy to close the borders to Chinese nationals, confiscate any property including companies owned by China and/or Chinese nationals and impose massive tarrifs on all imports.

Yeah it would cause pain here and barely a dent in their economy, that's not the point. #****

[think positive]

Bravo

[David]

You don’t need to have any love for China to realise they’re probably telling the truth. Australia has a long history of dirty tactics on that front.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/06/30 ... -collaery/