Blemishes, value and ownership

[think positive]

gees thats a good point or 2!!

[Tannin]

Education: people who run governments send their kids to private schools.

Police: people who run governments have private security.

Public health: people who run governments have private health insurance.

All these people who run governments and advocate for government control refuse to be bound by any of the rules they make for everyone else.

Rich and powerful people have always gamed the system to produce outcomes favourable to themselves. Forever. They did it in ancient Rome too.

They rip the guts out of (for example) the education system by defunding it and swamping it with poorer people with low life-chances. This isn't even a side effect of their determination to game the system: it is both a direct result and a desired consequence. Wealthy people prefer that the public system be dysfunctional (and their political tools deliberately cripple it with cuts and mismanagement) because their children gain from that. There are only so many good jobs around: by making sure that Broadmeadows Tech seldom produces a lawyer or a doctor or an accountant, you are improving your children's life chances and success ratio because you can afford to send then to Snottynose Grammar and most other people can't. It's just one more way of gaming the system.

[watt price tully]

I will.

And don't bother trying to argue government v private, that's a fact free argument that goes on ideology lines when the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I worked for Telecom at the height of it's size and had a close up view of the bloated waste in government run entities such as Telecom, Aus Post and the NSW Water Resources Commission.

Wait a minute guv'

Pi's premise was that private does things so much better compared to goverment: he was rightly being taken to task for such an obviously wrong and ideologically driven notion. There were just a few current examples to blow a hole or three in that premise.

I don't know Pi from a bar of soap but it's an overused and lazy assumption. I don't want goverment ownership of everything but utilities, water, police, education, and public health should be not negotiable.

The best Nursing homes by far in the pandemic have been the public and not for profit ones because they are not solely driven by profit.

so lets just unpack that a bit shall we...

Education: people who run governments send their kids to private schools.

Police: people who run governments have private security.

Public health: people who run governments have private health insurance.

All these people who run governments and advocate for government control refuse to be bound by any of the rules they make for everyone else.

My premise is that the more you get governments to do the less efficient they get. Same goes for large companies with monopolies. A lazy assumption would be that I believe that all government is bad and all private is good.

It has nothing to do with ideology because you find it in every iteration of government type; its just the level of inefficiency that varies.

You stated unequivocally:

"The problem is anything governments provide is basically sh!t, especially communist governments. The standard rule for governments is the more you let them do the more they complicate things and the crappier they get".

It was and remains wrong, lazy and simplisitic view now matter how many times one says it. Each example I cited proved the meaningless of the view that Goverment services are inherently worse than private services.

The examples you posited to "unpack" merely deflect not address the contention at hand

Not a single example you provided demontstrates how goverment services are inherently bad and non-government services are inherently good, not one.

[watt price tully]

gees thats a good point or 2!!

With respect, not one of the so called "unpacking" examples demonstrated Pi's contention that Goverment services are inherently bad and those provided by non goverment services are inherently good: that is the essence of the argument that Pi put forward and that I took issue with because it's so often said, often reflexively so and is a lot of the time so untrue.

[Pi]

^ isnt some that that (not all) kind of a myth.

Broadmeadows may not produce a ton of lawyers but it does have its fair share of plumbers and electricians; the odd Collingwood president.

Apparently plumbers and electricians can make more than lawyers.

https://www.businessfirstmagazine.com.a ... ers/15633/

Plenty of cashed up bogans.

Some people go trade then university, I did.

[stui magpie]

And schools don't magically give you intelligence and/or motivation. If you have both of those you may go to the crappest state school in the state, you'll still get to Uni if that's what you want.

The dilettante scion of the wealthy may be able to qualify as a lawyer or possibly an accountant (not a doctor) but if all they have going for them is the family name they won't (generally) do any good.

[What'sinaname]

why cant we have both in PPP's

[stui magpie]

PPP?

Personal protection ponce?
Pussy Pounding party?

[What'sinaname]

PPP?

Personal protection ponce?
Pussy Pounding party?

public private partnerships.

[stui magpie]

OK, they can work too. My impression is they way they tend to work is that the Private puts up the initial capital and reaps a long term dividend enabled by the Public bureaucracy while the actual public just gets spitroasted.

[watt price tully]

PPP?

Personal protection ponce?
Pussy Pounding party?

public private partnerships.

PPP is largely a myth. The way it was done and continues to be done in Victoria (thank you Jeff Kennett) is the exemplar of privatising profit and socialising costs. Transurban anybody?

[stui magpie]

^

JFK set the template, Chairman Dan has it embossed.

[watt price tully]

^

JFK set the template, Chairman Dan has it embossed.

The past Premier Jeffrey Gibb Kennett (JGK) commenced the PPP and successive governments including and Premier Daniel Andrews have continued it: correct weight

[stui magpie]

I always called him JFK. Jeffrey Fkn Kennett.

[Tannin]

^

JFK set the template, Chairman Dan has it embossed.

Yes.