Biden presidency and 2024 election campaign

[David]

[stui magpie]

[pietillidie]

^For the record, lest the discussion with David distract from my actual views of Biden, I do not hope for anything more than a 10% improvement that nudges things in the right direction, starting with proper governance. I've been around way too long to hope for anything more from any government, especially with what is still largely a lunatic religious cult in opposition. But, as I say, Biden took the job, so it falls on him to get it done.

However, Trump was clearly an utter horror show and nightmare for the US and the planet, while Biden was clearly the right bloke for the moment. How you can not think the former, and David can not think the latter, is beyond me.

[David]

The first is clearly correct. But for the second to be true, you would either have to think that Biden pulled off some kind of miracle by winning the election, or else that he has specific qualities that made him an exemplary candidate. Knowing what we know about Biden and how the election panned out, I'm bewildered how anyone could take either view. It's just parallel universe stuff to me.

[Tannin]

Correct David. You got it in one. Exactly right.

(Be sure to send us a postcard now and then. Assuming that you have post offices and pencils and stuff like that in that parallel universe of yours.)

[PyreneesPie]

Otherwise, he may as well have been a cardboard box with a "not Trump" sign on it, and ultimately that was enough; if you think that's testament to masterful political instincts, a sound agenda or laudable personal attributes, then I really do wonder if you were following the same election as the rest of us these past twelve months.

I tend to agree with you David that just about any candidate that was "not Trump" could've won the election.
However, it was Biden who was presented as the Democratic nomination and Biden who pulled it off.

It is quite possible that he does possess "masterful political instincts" having been one of the youngest politicians elected to the US Senate ever (no mean feat) and going on to serve six terms in that position. A political bunny could not have achieved that for starters!

"A sound agenda" - well, one would only need to refer to the executive orders he has signed in the first few days of being in office to determine whether his agenda is looking like a sound one for the country and the world at large.

Laudable personal attributes - yep, there's plenty of evidence of those - PTID has detailed some of them already, so I won't repeat what's been said (although I could add even more). It can only be a plus for a society trying to survive and go forward, when the people of a nation can see that their leader is a decent, caring, empathetic, human being.

No doubt Biden won't get everything right, but just because he got in by "being anyone but Trump", does not mean he is automatically disqualified from being deserving of the position and doing it justice.

[Tannin]

Being "Not Trump" was a necessary precondition, David, but not complete. The new president also had to be:

* A competent operator able to set up and lead a professional working government.

* Stable and sensible. Not someone who would lose it when faced with difficulties or awkward decisions. Biden has already dealt with a number, and dealt with them well.

* Capable of uniting the party. Biden was easily the best of all the candidates in this regard.

* Capable of uniting the nation. Yes, an impossible task, but it is necessary to get as close as possible to it, and Biden has done just that. He has done a far better job than the likes of Sanders could possibly hope to do.

His middle-of-the-road (by US standards) policies are not what you or I would like to see. But they are possible policies in that ultra-toxic political wasteland we call the USA (unlike the policies we would both prefer), and that is what matters in politics. You do what is possible.

Biden has proved to be exactly the right man at the right time.

If you want to believe that a number of others could have done as well, OK, it is possible that (for example) Pete Buttigeig might have (though imagining that the religion-mad Americans would ever elect a gay man as President is a stretch), But Bernie? Very doubtful. Bernie is like Trump in this one respect: he is very good at preaching to the choir. The choir is going to vote for you anyway - you need to be able to reach out into the community at large. Bernie can't. Biden can. Biden did.

[stui magpie]

^

C'mon man, Biden hasn't proven anything yet. FFS he's been POTUS less than a week. He may well prove to be exactly what was needed and so far he's making the right noises but jury is still in court

[Tannin]

Rubbish. He has proven to be the right man to get rid of Trump. He has come through the very difficult period of toxic denial of his election win with dignity, grace, and just the right touch of steel. Many a lesser man would have failed that test.

Further, he has hit the ground running, with carefully-thought-out staff selections and clear, sensible executive orders.

He has already done more good in his 7 day-term than Trump managed in 4 years. Count the wins up: he has signed up to the Paris climate accord (huge, huge boost for our chances of beating global heating), restored a good deal of America's lost international trust and respect, cancelled the horrendously stupid tar-sands pipeline, and made a serious start on the massive task of fighting Covid through setting an adult example, through mandating actual anti-virus policies on all federal property, and through putting actual policies in place to get the vaccination rolling.

[stui magpie]

Dear oh lord, see a specialist, you're delusional.

Hillary would have wone that election, likely by more than the 200,000 votes Biden won by

Plus Trump actually did pretty good in his first 3 years, not that you're likely to agree with that. It was his mis management of covid that cost him and then he really lost the plot in the last months.

Biden has the challenge in front of him, let's not cannonise him after 6 days in the job.

[Tannin]

Hillary would have wone that election, likely by more than the 200,000 votes Biden won by

Not a chance. Not one chance in a thousand. Clinton is the reason Trump got in in the first place. They hate her. She was an utterly stupid choice as candidate. Trump in 2016 got a very low vote - lower than Romney, who lost to Obama. Clinton got more than Trump but a very poor performance from a Democrat. People just couldn't be arsed getting out of bed to vote for that turd. (So they would up with a far, far worse one.)

likely by more than the 200,000 votes Biden won by

Why do you feel the urge to lie? It is a lie, you are not so stupid that you can't discover the actual margin.

(Sorry, I forgot. Telling ridiculous, obvious lies over and over is what Trump people do. THey follow in the footsteps of their master, who said: "In the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation."

Plus Trump actually did pretty good in his first 3 years

What part of picking a trade fight with China and losing it, or wrecking America's climate policy, or speaking slander about decorated heroes, or backing Putin against your own security people, or stacking the courts, or putting a climate change denier in charge of climate change policy, or just being easily the worst US President in living memory are you pretending was good?

[pietillidie]

^His trashing of the global economy over that period, wiping billions off growth by abusing the delicate world arrangement based on the longstanding tacit support of superpower economic primacy was something to behold. It was like watching a vampire draining the world's lifeblood and claiming it as his own (Australian Trumpist dimwits were only too willing to offer their necks up for the Vampire Cult, no matter how much it cost them).

The time bomb he was building by wiping out competent government as he corrupted everything he touched and formed a lunatic right religion, was only ever one stress away from exploding. He basically took all the energy of the post-GGC recovery economy and directed it to self-glorying, feckless, deluded ends, like a comic book nihilist. Zero accountability. Zero risk management. Zero objective bar narcissistic glory and sadistic control. Never has anyone wrecked so much so quickly.

But to the Cult, it was a raging success. Overheating a superpower economy through a trade war sans planning, cooperation, competent staff, risk management and strategy was always a chimera. Anyone with half a fraction of economic literacy could see what he was doing. As ever, without exception, the shonky conman left everyone else with the bill, having dined out for a few years as the time bomb counted down.

Trump's overheated market was the equivalent of the toppling of Saddam's statue: an eerie prelude to wanton, demented, unstoppable chaos. The very same people fell for that charade, too.

Then came the pandemic denial and dithering, and the whole house of cards collapsed.

Iraq, the GFC, the runaway pandemic collapse, the Trumpist subversion of democracy. The same voters. The same party. The same toxic chaos.

[watt price tully]

Dear oh lord, see a specialist, you're delusional.

Hillary would have wone that election, likely by more than the 200,000 votes Biden won by

Plus Trump actually did pretty good in his first 3 years, not that you're likely to agree with that. It was his mis management of covid that cost him and then he really lost the plot in the last months.

Biden has the challenge in front of him, let's not cannonise him after 6 days in the job.

You only noticed Trump lost the plot in the last few months. However, he was right to call out the WHO in the first few weeks of their dithering over Coronavirus. The writing was clearly on the wall very early on to anyone: in his watch he made Russia and China great again while diminishing the US:

One of many examples of his ineptitude:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y6_ckWZCHW4

That was in 2017. Chris Uhlmann is no friend of the left.

[watt price tully]

Then again he was the modern model of a stable genius (in his own words)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?index=21&li ... -LTRwZb35A

[pietillidie]

Well, at least the market highs, business exuberance, payouts from China and Mexico, removal of costly regulations, selling off of public lands and wilderness, magnificent deals, beautiful deals, backed by the party of business and the economy, means the coffers are overflowing even though the bad times have hit, as if Keynes himself had been in charge of things.

Oh. [adjusts earpiece]. Um. Err. There seems to have been a miscommunication.