Coronavirus 3 - Al Pacino's turn to mumble

[stui magpie]

Why are states choosing CBD hotels? The only logical reason is to prop up the hotels financially when their tourist business is so low but that's a poor reason to use such clearly unsuitable places.

I don't agree national standards are required, sounds like another attempt to abdicate blame.

There's any number of places Victoria could be using that would be better, no one made them, maybe the health advice at state level isn't as good as claimed?

[Pies4shaw]

It's not the hotel quarantine situation but here's an article with an embedded visual simulation model for aerosol droplets in an office environment: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/ ... 46348?nw=0

I may have posted this before (I can't remember) but it's probably of interest in the present context.

[watt price tully]

Why are states choosing CBD hotels? The only logical reason is to prop up the hotels financially when their tourist business is so low but that's a poor reason to use such clearly unsuitable places.

I don't agree national standards are required, sounds like another attempt to abdicate blame.

There's any number of places Victoria could be using that would be better, no one made them, maybe the health advice at state level isn't as good as claimed?

Close to hospitals and other emergency services if required.

[stui magpie]

Why are states choosing CBD hotels? The only logical reason is to prop up the hotels financially when their tourist business is so low but that's a poor reason to use such clearly unsuitable places.

I don't agree national standards are required, sounds like another attempt to abdicate blame.

There's any number of places Victoria could be using that would be better, no one made them, maybe the health advice at state level isn't as good as claimed?

Close to hospitals and other emergency services if required.

Don't need to be in the CBD Hotel for that. Exhibit 1 = Darwin.

[Tannin]

Why are states choosing CBD hotels? The only logical reason is to prop up the hotels financially when their tourist business is so low but that's a poor reason to use such clearly unsuitable places.

Exactly! Well, they also say that it simplifies transport to and from, and that it is difficult to find staff to work in "remote" locations, but I think your point still stands.

I don't agree national standards are required, sounds like another attempt to abdicate blame.

Yes. Immigration and quarantine are 100% federal responsibilities. The do-nothing federal government is responsible for quarantine and is trying, as usual, to abdicate responsibility. The states are doing all the heavy lifting, the Feds need to lift their game and set some standards. Right now they need to be getting their act together and setting out what needs to be done to do quarantine safely.

Do Nothing Dutton should resign. He is a disgrace.

[stui magpie]

I'm not going to argue with you about Dutton, we clearly disagree so leave it there.

The fact is the states are responsible for the quarantine proceedings. Victoria is the only state bringing in non-Australians for the tennis, everyone else is just bringing in Australians.

As you agreed, the argument that the CBD is logistically better is flawed. Following the Darwin model would be far smarter, the rest is just logistics.

Find or build a place just remote enough that there's no chance of casual contamination that has self contained cabins that can be separated into zones with fencing. This allows people to actually get outside, access to fresh air and removes the whole airconditioning issue.

Station an ambulance there for the duration with staff on rotation, remaining outside unless needed.

Staff live on site in a FIFO arrangement. Work for 14 days, quarantine for 14 days (on full pay) on site segregated from potential infection, go home for 14 days, rinse and repeat.

There's already concerns that some vaccines won't be effective or be less effective against mutant strains and we still have no clues how long the different vaccines provide immunity for, so we need to play the long game and plan to do this for another 2 years at minimum

[What'sinaname]

Good to see that Dan has followed Gladys and not gone straight to lock down.

[Tannin]

I'm not going to argue with you about Dutton, we clearly disagree so leave it there.

The fact is the states are responsible for the quarantine proceedings.

Immigration is and always has been a federal responsibility. 100%.

Call me back when you have an international travel document titled "New South Wales Passport". That would be after the referendum to change the constitution, obviously.

[Dark Beanie]

Non Australians have arrived other than those for the tennis.

I have friends who are visiting their daughter who is studying at Melbourne Uni. They have come from San Diego and quarantined in Sydney before travelling to Melbourne on Boxing day. Not sure what visas they are travelling on - one is an Aussie, the other American but they have been living in the states for about 18 years. But they are basically holidaying and going back at the end of this month.

There are also people who are arriving as skilled migrants. About 2000 arrived in December.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 56z6d.html
"Australian Bureau of Statistics data shows 2,720 people arrived in Australia on permanent skilled visas in December 2020"

[stui magpie]

I'm not going to argue with you about Dutton, we clearly disagree so leave it there.

The fact is the states are responsible for the quarantine proceedings.

Immigration is and always has been a federal responsibility. 100%.

Call me back when you have an international travel document titled "New South Wales Passport". That would be after the referendum to change the constitution, obviously.

FFS, yes the federal government controls who gets into the country, the states have been charged with dealing with returning travelers and other internationals who land in their state.

It may be OK down there in Tassie but here in the republic of Danistan they require a permit to enter the state, potentially in breach of the constitution.

Do you really think that if the Feds provided a national guideline the Labor premiers would follow it?

I'd love you to explain how the Federal government would assume control of the whole thing including controlling where international aircraft run by private companies land and all the logistics in managing arrivals without breaching the constitution.

While Gladys deals with the nations hotel quarantine without a mishap for months and at the same time Victorians are all locked up for months, it's all good. But as soon as Dan lets one loose it's all the Feds fault. FMD.

[Tannin]

Would the states follow a Federal guideline? My oath they would. The blowback if a state decided to ignore a national guideline and it went wrong doesn't bear thinking about. And they need not - indeed should not - be "guidelines". They should be requirements, hard and fast rules. The Feds don't just have the right to do that, they have the duty to do it. If they want to outsource implementation to third parties (such as the states) they are entitled to do so, but you can't outsource responsibility.

As for pretending that Gladys hasn't had a mishap, what a farrkin joke. Can we say "Ruby Princess"? Can we say "Christmas lockdown".

Finally, air transport and everything pertaining to it is also a federal responsibility. Airports are run by the Federal Government. No-one else. The Federal Government has sole control over immigration. And customs. And negotiating which aircraft are allowed to land in which places. 100% a Federal matter.

So OK, how would the Federal Government control where international aircraft run by private companies land?

Ans: exactly the same way it controls that today.

Every aircraft, every landing.

And exactly the same way the Federal Government has controlled airports and who has the right to land on them ever since the aeroplane was invented in the first place.

[stui magpie]

Yeah, right, whatever. I know your mind is closed so I'm just not going to argue with you on this, there's zero chance of you admitting where you're wrong because you have an emotional investment.

[Tannin]

Tell you what, how about you argue that airports and aircraft are not a federal responsibility?

Bring evidence. Be sure to explain why they are staffed by (for example) Federal Police. Also, explain why there is a federal department responsible for all matters aviation (now a part of the Federal Transport Department, previously a department in its own right, complete with its own minister).

[stui magpie]

Meanwhile Andrews claims at a press conference that Vic Hotel Quarantine is best in class and the other states have agreed to copy it.

So either we're deluded or he is.

[eddiesmith]

NSW did have a lockdown at Christmas? But the ABC spin doctor and people on here were complaining they didn’t lockdown, which is it?

On a more serious note, the National Cabinet coordinating the COVID response involves 6 premiers, 2 chief ministers and 1 PM. So it’s always funny how every time a Labor premier (mates with) up the complaints are how they should never have been put in charge in the first place. Probably a fair point given their general incompetence, but it was their decision at National Cabinet to undertake hotel quarantine. So you can’t complain about them doing a job they chose to do...