US forces in Afghanistan, 2020 and beyond

[What'sinaname]

Was just listening to a podcast and there was a great line from John Dolan (aka The War Nerd, well worth looking up some of the stuff he's written) about this:

There's this sense that Biden is a traitor by imposing this humiliation. Really what Biden has done is come in and said, "This patient died ten years ago; turn off the machines," but it's very easy to take that and say, "Biden killed the patient," and that's going big in the US media right now.

Continuing that analogy, Biden just dragged the dead body through the hospital, dragged it outside in full view of people and threw it out on the foot path.

[roar]

So phucking what? How can anyone honestly claim Trump would have handled things better?

[What'sinaname]

So phucking what? How can anyone honestly claim Trump would have handled things better?

That's not the point and comparing to hypotheticals also misses the point too.

Based on fact, Biden has butchered horribly.

[think positive]

was there a way for anyone to withdraw peacefully?
so easy to kick people, but do you have an alternative solution?

[What'sinaname]

and so it begins.....again......

[pietillidie]

Based on fact, Biden has butchered horribly.

No, these are the facts so overwhelming nothing else comes within a million miles of their significance: Biden is ending 20 years of chaos, misery and failure in Afghanistan that spread like toxic effluent across the region, leading to Iraq and Syria and beyond, killing millions of people, creating millions of refugees, and generating unfathomable suffering.

Biden is taking responsibility no one else will touch because they're spineless weasels.

Yes, it is happening again alright. The very same people who who repeatedly make irrational, reckless, costly, backward decisions - Afghanistan fist wavers, Iraq fist wavers, fossil fuels grifters, climate denialists, Brexit gamblers, Trump gamblers, anti-vaxxers, extremist American Christian crazies - are once again trying to avoid taking responsibility for their decisions.

[stui magpie]

So phucking what? How can anyone honestly claim Trump would have handled things better?

Trump negotiated the exit with the Taliban, Biden's job was to implement it.

Overseeing an orderly exit would not be something I'd consider to be in Trump's skill set by any stretch, likely he would have made a hash of it too but he'd have had to be trying hard to do a worse job. It's like they didn't have months to plan it and just decided Friday to withdraw next Monday. Rushed, disorganised, clustercluck.

[pietillidie]

^There is no orderly pain-free exit from a country controlled by the enemy where the grifters paid to form an opposing army pocketed 20 years of contracts for nothing.

Two decades of complete lies the entire time to avoid a loss of face after Bush, Chesney and Blair made the fateful decision originally.

The choice has long been exit ugly or take the coward's route and surge yet again to try to exit cleanly, worsening the problem still further and kicking the can down the road.

People are still under the original delusion that a team of Hollywood marines could just go in and sort Afghanistan out, pulling off heroics like getting thousands of people out of a country without infrastructure controlled by hostile forces.

It's the very same error since 2001: people imagining a cartoon Afghanistan that bears no relation to reality. The shocking realisation is that people had effectively been trapped there for ages because the war was long lost and opposition security right across the country had collapsed.

It is obvious that Biden withdrew because the alternative was yet another commitment of forces to then hope to create the circumstances to support an imaginary orderly withdrawal. So this is not only the right decision, it's actually less of a political hit than committing still more forces.

People just can't grasp that the great US of A not only lost two wars, but couldn't even put together a basic opposition force after having dished out billions on contracts to its own grifters to do just that. They've got little hope 9f going further and realising thousands of people had become trapped in a political catch 22 no one could solve.

The truth is far more disconcerting than people can bear. And it has virtually nothing to do with the ugliness of the withdrawal, which is just another incident in the scheme of 20 years of complete carnage purchased with zillions of dollars of tax payer money.

[think positive]

i agree, just wish there was a solution, so many people left to suffer, the country is self destructing thanks to the evil pricks who just wont quit.

im sure jezza posted something about before the US was there, something about the russians.

[stui magpie]

There's not much left to self destruct and really, never has been.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan

[David]

[stui magpie]

^

Glad you think so.

Biden went ahead with the withdrawal as it was already agreed and staying on made no sense, but to argue that it was managed as well as it possibly could be is utter claptrap

[think positive]

I think everyone is shocked by how fast the taliban moved in, not sure there was ever going to be an easy way to leave, as much as people knock the yanks life was better for people there than it will be now. Doesn’t matter if they were there forthe wrong reason. Biden was on a hiding to know where.

I just hope they get as many people out as they possibly can, and taking 3,000 is nowhere near enough.

[stui magpie]

[ronrat]

I remember when Australia first announce they were joining the USA into Afhganistan. The usual suspects were out the front of Victoria Barracks protesting and calling out those in uniform.

They had one dickhead saying " we should storm the building and wreck all the equipment in the Defence Signals Directorate and then go to Watsonia and disable Omega.

All well and good but DSD had relocated to Canberra 5 years before. And the military part of Omega had been turned off years earlier and replaced by GPS and the Department kept a skeleton staff to maintain it because it was still being used by commercial shipping and turning it off could have had catastrophic effect on shipping within Port Phillip and Westenport bays and Bass Strait. The satellite dish that can be seen from StKilda road is actually a receiver dish for US Armed forces radio so the US exchange people and the US consulate staff could receive it and the building used by the consul did not have space.

They also picketd only one entrance and their are nominally 4 , And the military were told to dress at work.