Brander is being played wing / midfield. I dont think Allen has gone past him as much as they are stacked with talls and Allen cant play a midfield role while Brander can.
This key forwrad v 2nd forward argument is rubbish. Hes a gun and much better than any other name mentioned including mids . You just get quality if you have a chance - sadly Im not sure we will have the currency.
The 2021 Great Big Consolidated Trade & Draft thread
Moderator: bbmods
Except Chol is one of the best kicks you will see for a bloke around 6’ 8”Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote:Not sure his stats are any better than CoxPies2016 wrote:Surprised Marbir Chol hasn’t been mentioned
Bottom line, new coach needs to be involved in any trade decisions
He’s just getting senior exposure now and already has a bag of four to his name ( against lions )
McRae obviously knows him better than most but this guy has talent and he’s also a restricted free agent. He’s already a cheaper upgrade on Cox right now and a lot more mobile.
He will be in demand, so we should at least test the waters.
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Presti35
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Ok, let me see what I can do...inxs88 wrote:C'mon guys! Put up some hypothetical trades.
Pick 1 (North)
How to get it? Grundy straight swap. Will North bite? Probably not. Maybe if we add a sweetener?
or
Ben King and Pick 3(GCS)
What?? How to get that done? Firstly King will need some convincing that this is his club. That is half the battle. Then we offer Grundy, Maynard, Sidebottom, Cox, Murphy and a future 1st and 2nd. That pick 3 then becomes a tool to upgrade to pick 1 or Adam Cerra. Will the Suns accept? I dont think they would, but would they get a better offer?
There you go '88... Has this put the hype in hypothetical... or just the pathetic bit?
A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned!
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Presti35
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ok, I'll try to be a bit more realistic.
Targeting a FF
Trading:
With King being the one we'd love to get, he's just going to be impossible to land. So who is a realistic target?
Jake Riccardi (195cm, 21yo).
In and out of GWS lineup, been good at VFL level. It's surprising and concerning that he isn't playing that often in their senior lineup. A trade could be facilitated here. Cox and Murphy with an upgrade of picks in the 3rd round.
Callum Coleman-Jones (201cm, 22yo).
Richmond will be asking a hefty price. So I can't see a deal being stuck here. Without spending draft picks, it'd probably take one of Poulter, McCreery, Bianco or Rantall to get it done. I dont think we should pursue that.
Jarrod Brander (195cm, 22yo).
With WCE eyeing off the talls in the draft, and without a contract offer yet to be made, it says he is gettable. Hard to put a trade together... All I got is Sier and a swap of picks.
Sam Weideman (195cm, 24yo).
His value is dropping by the day. In previous years we've heard that it'd take a first round pick to get it done. Not anymore. If we can afford the points (we cant) i'd only offer a third rounder.
Tom Lynch (192cm, 30yo).
As a DFA, there's no trade required. Not the worst idea. It's just that at 30, he could be the next Josh Jenkins.
In the draft:
Jye Amiss (195cm, 18yo).
Playing for East Perth and projected to go around pick 15 in the draft. He could go even earlier.
Jack Williams (195cm, 18yo).
Playing for East Fremantle and projected to go around pick 20.
Jacob van Rooyen (194cm, 18yo).
Played for Claremont and projected to go around pick 25.
Freo/WCE will be watching those three closely. Can we get a pick in the teens to have a crack, thats the problem. All three from WA and have played senior footy in the WAFL this year. It's possible we're eyeing off one of these lads.
Already on the list:
Liam McMahon (194cm, 19yo).
Has shown glimpses in the VFL. If he's going to be our KPF, he needs to bulk up a little. Has not come close to selection yet. Missed a few games to concussion and a covid isolation iirc?
Targeting a FF
Trading:
With King being the one we'd love to get, he's just going to be impossible to land. So who is a realistic target?
Jake Riccardi (195cm, 21yo).
In and out of GWS lineup, been good at VFL level. It's surprising and concerning that he isn't playing that often in their senior lineup. A trade could be facilitated here. Cox and Murphy with an upgrade of picks in the 3rd round.
Callum Coleman-Jones (201cm, 22yo).
Richmond will be asking a hefty price. So I can't see a deal being stuck here. Without spending draft picks, it'd probably take one of Poulter, McCreery, Bianco or Rantall to get it done. I dont think we should pursue that.
Jarrod Brander (195cm, 22yo).
With WCE eyeing off the talls in the draft, and without a contract offer yet to be made, it says he is gettable. Hard to put a trade together... All I got is Sier and a swap of picks.
Sam Weideman (195cm, 24yo).
His value is dropping by the day. In previous years we've heard that it'd take a first round pick to get it done. Not anymore. If we can afford the points (we cant) i'd only offer a third rounder.
Tom Lynch (192cm, 30yo).
As a DFA, there's no trade required. Not the worst idea. It's just that at 30, he could be the next Josh Jenkins.
In the draft:
Jye Amiss (195cm, 18yo).
Playing for East Perth and projected to go around pick 15 in the draft. He could go even earlier.
Jack Williams (195cm, 18yo).
Playing for East Fremantle and projected to go around pick 20.
Jacob van Rooyen (194cm, 18yo).
Played for Claremont and projected to go around pick 25.
Freo/WCE will be watching those three closely. Can we get a pick in the teens to have a crack, thats the problem. All three from WA and have played senior footy in the WAFL this year. It's possible we're eyeing off one of these lads.
Already on the list:
Liam McMahon (194cm, 19yo).
Has shown glimpses in the VFL. If he's going to be our KPF, he needs to bulk up a little. Has not come close to selection yet. Missed a few games to concussion and a covid isolation iirc?
I said try.Presti35 wrote:ok, I'll try to be a bit more realistic.
A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned!
^ ^ ^
Trading for the likes of “ decent “ players like Coleman - Jones and Brander who fill a need, isn’t that difficult once you accept you need to give something up to get something back. The trick is not to compromise or butcher your best 22 while you’re doing it.
I’ve put this scenario up before and to me it makes logical sense in terms of securing a best 22 player and mitigating what we give up.
In simple terms, given that we are likely bottom four next year, we could offer to trade out our future first round pick and in return receive a quality player back and his clubs future first round pick ( given this will very likely be a club who will finish higher on the ladder than us )
Ie. Coleman - Jones and Richmond first round future pick = Collingwood first round future pick. Of course there would be fluff and padding mixed in amongst these trades but that’s just an afterthought to make both clubs feel like winners in the deal.
Or Brander and Eagles first round future pick = Collingwood round future pick. Ditto with the steak knives thrown in.
You could also stretch that out to lesser trades like Lipinski and Dogs future second round pick = Collingwood future second round pick ( rough example )
This means our 2022 draft hand remains in tact and there is a potential bonus that the club we traded with may perform a lot worse than anyone’s expectations. This won’t happen going the other way because any trading of Collingwoods future picks would be done on the back of us being rubbish anyway. As always the club we swapped with, could also finish higher than expected but the fact remains we would still have a first rounder and that automatically guarantees us flexibility on the night.
Clubs like the Eagles Hawks and Cats would be very keen to entertain these deals because they are old and requiring an immediate injection of quality youth.
The Ben King trading conversation is a mega trade and we aren’t in a position to entertain it on any number of fronts. There are ways to skin a cat but you at least need that cat within catching distance first.
Trading for the likes of “ decent “ players like Coleman - Jones and Brander who fill a need, isn’t that difficult once you accept you need to give something up to get something back. The trick is not to compromise or butcher your best 22 while you’re doing it.
I’ve put this scenario up before and to me it makes logical sense in terms of securing a best 22 player and mitigating what we give up.
In simple terms, given that we are likely bottom four next year, we could offer to trade out our future first round pick and in return receive a quality player back and his clubs future first round pick ( given this will very likely be a club who will finish higher on the ladder than us )
Ie. Coleman - Jones and Richmond first round future pick = Collingwood first round future pick. Of course there would be fluff and padding mixed in amongst these trades but that’s just an afterthought to make both clubs feel like winners in the deal.
Or Brander and Eagles first round future pick = Collingwood round future pick. Ditto with the steak knives thrown in.
You could also stretch that out to lesser trades like Lipinski and Dogs future second round pick = Collingwood future second round pick ( rough example )
This means our 2022 draft hand remains in tact and there is a potential bonus that the club we traded with may perform a lot worse than anyone’s expectations. This won’t happen going the other way because any trading of Collingwoods future picks would be done on the back of us being rubbish anyway. As always the club we swapped with, could also finish higher than expected but the fact remains we would still have a first rounder and that automatically guarantees us flexibility on the night.
Clubs like the Eagles Hawks and Cats would be very keen to entertain these deals because they are old and requiring an immediate injection of quality youth.
The Ben King trading conversation is a mega trade and we aren’t in a position to entertain it on any number of fronts. There are ways to skin a cat but you at least need that cat within catching distance first.
Hi to all, long time reader first time poster.
I’m interested in Wright publicly flagging an interest in ‘The Weid’ and the ambivalence with which this has seemingly been met.
I am of the opinion that many of our current forward ‘connection’ issues are the result of not having a legitimate KPF. If Wright is able to acquire ‘The Weid’ for a late draft pick (plus or minus player/pic swaps) whist still locking in the Daicos deal, how can this be viewed as a negative?
Worst case scenario is we finally have a legitimate, mature age FF body who will take the oppositions first or second best defender. The ripple effect sees checkers under less defensive heat, floating further up the ground and easing pressure on his goal kicking conversion. Likewise, Cameron will be a legitimate Ruck/forward manned by a 3rd tall and more able to exploit his height advantage. Billy Elliot can then play his natural game without being the focus of our attack, allowing his freakish skills and highlights package to flourish, and upcoming smalls like Ginnivan and Bianco will have actual forward targets to spread from or crumb off giving them some much needed to time grow into their roles. McCreaey adds the pressure factor and Olie Henry gets a few years to run, roam and mark everything in sight without having to stand as an undersized CHF whilst getting smashed and injured by fully grown men.
Further down the line the pressure is off Will Kelly to find his best footy at either end of the ground, Magic Johnson is out of the spotlight, and Begg and McMahon get a few years of breathing space to pack some Keggs on their light frames.
If we can get ‘The Weid’ cheap and park him at FF for the next 3 years - even if he only kicks 20-30 goals a year- the benefits to our teams long term development and confidence seem incalculable.
Thoughts?
I’m interested in Wright publicly flagging an interest in ‘The Weid’ and the ambivalence with which this has seemingly been met.
I am of the opinion that many of our current forward ‘connection’ issues are the result of not having a legitimate KPF. If Wright is able to acquire ‘The Weid’ for a late draft pick (plus or minus player/pic swaps) whist still locking in the Daicos deal, how can this be viewed as a negative?
Worst case scenario is we finally have a legitimate, mature age FF body who will take the oppositions first or second best defender. The ripple effect sees checkers under less defensive heat, floating further up the ground and easing pressure on his goal kicking conversion. Likewise, Cameron will be a legitimate Ruck/forward manned by a 3rd tall and more able to exploit his height advantage. Billy Elliot can then play his natural game without being the focus of our attack, allowing his freakish skills and highlights package to flourish, and upcoming smalls like Ginnivan and Bianco will have actual forward targets to spread from or crumb off giving them some much needed to time grow into their roles. McCreaey adds the pressure factor and Olie Henry gets a few years to run, roam and mark everything in sight without having to stand as an undersized CHF whilst getting smashed and injured by fully grown men.
Further down the line the pressure is off Will Kelly to find his best footy at either end of the ground, Magic Johnson is out of the spotlight, and Begg and McMahon get a few years of breathing space to pack some Keggs on their light frames.
If we can get ‘The Weid’ cheap and park him at FF for the next 3 years - even if he only kicks 20-30 goals a year- the benefits to our teams long term development and confidence seem incalculable.
Thoughts?
We have no draft or trade currency… so King, Brander and Jones are not realistic options.
If we enter another season without a legitimate KPF we are doomed to repeat another season of sporadic scoring, wasted opportunities off our hard working HB line, and the demoralising impact of not getting bang for buck when pushing forward.
The new, upcoming on board brigade deserve a target and some form of return for hard work rendered.
If Wright can get ‘The Weid’ cheap, I can’t see how we can lose.
If we enter another season without a legitimate KPF we are doomed to repeat another season of sporadic scoring, wasted opportunities off our hard working HB line, and the demoralising impact of not getting bang for buck when pushing forward.
The new, upcoming on board brigade deserve a target and some form of return for hard work rendered.
If Wright can get ‘The Weid’ cheap, I can’t see how we can lose.
Presti35 wrote:ok, I'll try to be a bit more realistic.
Targeting a FF
Trading:
With King being the one we'd love to get, he's just going to be impossible to land. So who is a realistic target?
Jake Riccardi (195cm, 21yo).
In and out of GWS lineup, been good at VFL level. It's surprising and concerning that he isn't playing that often in their senior lineup. A trade could be facilitated here. Cox and Murphy with an upgrade of picks in the 3rd round.
Callum Coleman-Jones (201cm, 22yo).
Richmond will be asking a hefty price. So I can't see a deal being stuck here. Without spending draft picks, it'd probably take one of Poulter, McCreery, Bianco or Rantall to get it done. I dont think we should pursue that.
Jarrod Brander (195cm, 22yo).
With WCE eyeing off the talls in the draft, and without a contract offer yet to be made, it says he is gettable. Hard to put a trade together... All I got is Sier and a swap of picks.
Sam Weideman (195cm, 24yo).
His value is dropping by the day. In previous years we've heard that it'd take a first round pick to get it done. Not anymore. If we can afford the points (we cant) i'd only offer a third rounder.
Tom Lynch (192cm, 30yo).
As a DFA, there's no trade required. Not the worst idea. It's just that at 30, he could be the next Josh Jenkins.
In the draft:
Jye Amiss (195cm, 18yo).
Playing for East Perth and projected to go around pick 15 in the draft. He could go even earlier.
Jack Williams (195cm, 18yo).
Playing for East Fremantle and projected to go around pick 20.
Jacob van Rooyen (194cm, 18yo).
Played for Claremont and projected to go around pick 25.
Freo/WCE will be watching those three closely. Can we get a pick in the teens to have a crack, thats the problem. All three from WA and have played senior footy in the WAFL this year. It's possible we're eyeing off one of these lads.
Already on the list:
Liam McMahon (194cm, 19yo).
Has shown glimpses in the VFL. If he's going to be our KPF, he needs to bulk up a little. Has not come close to selection yet. Missed a few games to concussion and a covid isolation iirc?
Good effort
I said try.Presti35 wrote:ok, I'll try to be a bit more realistic.
I love the Pies, hate Carlscum
Welcome. Fair comments.5:11pm wrote:Hi to all, long time reader first time poster.
I’m interested in Wright publicly flagging an interest in ‘The Weid’ and the ambivalence with which this has seemingly been met.
I am of the opinion that many of our current forward ‘connection’ issues are the result of not having a legitimate KPF. If Wright is able to acquire ‘The Weid’ for a late draft pick (plus or minus player/pic swaps) whist still locking in the Daicos deal, how can this be viewed as a negative?
Worst case scenario is we finally have a legitimate, mature age FF body who will take the oppositions first or second best defender. The ripple effect sees checkers under less defensive heat, floating further up the ground and easing pressure on his goal kicking conversion. Likewise, Cameron will be a legitimate Ruck/forward manned by a 3rd tall and more able to exploit his height advantage. Billy Elliot can then play his natural game without being the focus of our attack, allowing his freakish skills and highlights package to flourish, and upcoming smalls like Ginnivan and Bianco will have actual forward targets to spread from or crumb off giving them some much needed to time grow into their roles. McCreaey adds the pressure factor and Olie Henry gets a few years to run, roam and mark everything in sight without having to stand as an undersized CHF whilst getting smashed and injured by fully grown men.
Further down the line the pressure is off Will Kelly to find his best footy at either end of the ground, Magic Johnson is out of the spotlight, and Begg and McMahon get a few years of breathing space to pack some Keggs on their light frames.
If we can get ‘The Weid’ cheap and park him at FF for the next 3 years - even if he only kicks 20-30 goals a year- the benefits to our teams long term development and confidence seem incalculable.
Thoughts?
To me, this is the constant challenge a list manager faces. Do you invest in a “ cheap “ recycled option to POTENTIALLY fill a need or do you pay a premium trade price in the knowledge that what you’re getting is rolled gold ??
Obviously a premium trade will always be more difficult to facilitate than a lesser trade, so those premium player opportunities are available less often.
The pay off for a cheap trade option that justifies his position every week is huge. Conversely, any player who doesn’t cut it, is only taking up both cap and list space. You may also waste two years on that player by the time you work out he wasnt the right option.
I’m not against trading in a player who comes to the club as unders ( however that looks ) but my preference would be to bide our time and save our pennies for the rolled gold option. Then you are effectively locking that key position away for the next 6 + years, especially when it comes to the key post positions.
Thanks brother.
I totally agree with your sentiments, but I was extremely concerned by our final game of the year and watching the brains trust play young Olie Henry as an undersized and underdeveloped CHF. It just screamed of desperation and resulted in an injury that was seemingly inevitable. To watch him run back on the park clutching his shoulder and then be lauded in the post match debrief for ‘playing through the pain’ was unforgivable.
The last thing we want to see is a clearly talented kid with a future, turn into the next Sean Rusling.
Obviously we need a big bodied mid to give Tae a chop out in and under, and just as pressingly, we need a legitimate KPF to provide a forward target and create options for other players.
We need it now and we need it cheap…. What other realistic candidates are there?
I totally agree with your sentiments, but I was extremely concerned by our final game of the year and watching the brains trust play young Olie Henry as an undersized and underdeveloped CHF. It just screamed of desperation and resulted in an injury that was seemingly inevitable. To watch him run back on the park clutching his shoulder and then be lauded in the post match debrief for ‘playing through the pain’ was unforgivable.
The last thing we want to see is a clearly talented kid with a future, turn into the next Sean Rusling.
Obviously we need a big bodied mid to give Tae a chop out in and under, and just as pressingly, we need a legitimate KPF to provide a forward target and create options for other players.
We need it now and we need it cheap…. What other realistic candidates are there?
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themonk
- Posts: 2225
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:12 pm
The guy has played 22 games in 4 years, is he worth more than a 3rd round pick?MJ23 wrote:Brander is being played wing / midfield. I dont think Allen has gone past him as much as they are stacked with talls and Allen cant play a midfield role while Brander can.
This key forwrad v 2nd forward argument is rubbish. Hes a gun and much better than any other name mentioned including mids . You just get quality if you have a chance - sadly Im not sure we will have the currency.
^ ^ ^
5.11pm - The young blokes certainly need some protection and some of the heat taken off them.
I honestly feel like something might fall into our lap between now and next season. There will be fire sales at other clubs and a few clubs in particular will need to clear the decks and regenerate their list.
It might yet be a Riccardi or a Weideman. At least they’re built for the now and would require attention from the opposition. Ideally, you would have them on a two year contract and have only given up unders to secure either one of them.
I could live with that. In truth, there isn’t anyone around 195cm currently on our list who is likely to pass either of them by inside two years.
5.11pm - The young blokes certainly need some protection and some of the heat taken off them.
I honestly feel like something might fall into our lap between now and next season. There will be fire sales at other clubs and a few clubs in particular will need to clear the decks and regenerate their list.
It might yet be a Riccardi or a Weideman. At least they’re built for the now and would require attention from the opposition. Ideally, you would have them on a two year contract and have only given up unders to secure either one of them.
I could live with that. In truth, there isn’t anyone around 195cm currently on our list who is likely to pass either of them by inside two years.
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MJ23
- Posts: 4163
- Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:52 pm
- Location: Sydney
Yeah but nearly all the last two seasons including 11 this year. As I said, hes a tall that can play mid. I think hes a talent and Id doubt they let him go cheap.themonk wrote:The guy has played 22 games in 4 years, is he worth more than a 3rd round pick?MJ23 wrote:Brander is being played wing / midfield. I dont think Allen has gone past him as much as they are stacked with talls and Allen cant play a midfield role while Brander can.
This key forwrad v 2nd forward argument is rubbish. Hes a gun and much better than any other name mentioned including mids . You just get quality if you have a chance - sadly Im not sure we will have the currency.
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan
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