The 2021 Great Big Consolidated Trade & Draft thread

[MJ23]

Bit of a pity Martin didn't say "Sorry guys, a contract is a contract" and compel the Blues to stick with it.

They actually have to. Especially first year.

Well perhaps they have to mathematically, in order to justify the cap payments.
Presuming this table does in fact have to be submitted to AFL for validation, the 2021 balance sheet may very well read:
J.Martin - $1,500,000.00
and the other players listed to comprise the remainder of total cap tally.

However, there is nothing to stop both player, manager and club settling on say $700,000.00 for 2021, behind closed doors?
That remaining balance of $800,000.00 would be swallowed up by players showing a lower wage [unders] on that 2021 spreadsheet.
Basically the same shenanigans that got us deep into the shit over the last few seasons, until we calculated ourselves into a corner.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the AFL has no authority to demand to investigate the bank accounts of players or their families?
Thus they would never know what any player was actually paid, in any given year?
I'm sure the ATO would have a record of the exact figures on group certificates etc, BUT doubting the AFL has access to that information either?

There's always ways around these scenarios; but it's when it all unravels down the track, like it did with us, that things become problematic...

1. I believe the AFL integrity dept have a broad range of powers as agreed to by players union and would be in any contract signed.
2. This is the very definition of cap and draft tampering even though TPP might not be breached.
3. Risk versus reward - why would you do all of that, trust a whole heap of people plus need a second set of books where the club can be searched / audited without any notice for one player when the penalty could be - loss of premiership points, loss of players, loss of cash and potential loss of draft picks ?

[MJ23]

This is the article I always reference which says "close to $1 million":

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/ada ... 56mtl.html#

I guess $850k technically qualifies as close to $1m but I would have expected "close to $900k" in that case

Of course happy if it is true

There’s some things you hear from “pritty good sources” that you are happy to run with and then there are some things you hear a few times from a few different places.
Then there is a few exceptional times where you can’t exactly say where from but you know 100% as a fact.
$850 over 5 is a fact

$170,000 a year albeit annoying is far better than the reported $300,000

yep its literally $166k a year which is the way it was told to me.
The "last min" issues with the dogs wasnt about the 5yr total, it was about how much was front loaded etc. I dont know how this ended up.

[robevpau1]

COLLINGWOOD ENTERS RACE FOR SWANS YOUNG GUN

Collingwood have emerged as a suitor for Sydney young gun Dylan Stephens, reports 7 News Adelaide.

Senior foxfooty.com.au reporter Tom Morris first revealed last week that the Bombers had joined the Crows in the race for the former Pick 5, who’s from South Australia and was limited to just six senior games for the much-improved Swans this season.

But the report states Stephen’s preference is in fact a move to the Holden Centre, although the club sits third in the pecking order.

[piffdog]

They actually have to. Especially first year.

Well perhaps they have to mathematically, in order to justify the cap payments.
Presuming this table does in fact have to be submitted to AFL for validation, the 2021 balance sheet may very well read:
J.Martin - $1,500,000.00
and the other players listed to comprise the remainder of total cap tally.

However, there is nothing to stop both player, manager and club settling on say $700,000.00 for 2021, behind closed doors?
That remaining balance of $800,000.00 would be swallowed up by players showing a lower wage [unders] on that 2021 spreadsheet.
Basically the same shenanigans that got us deep into the shit over the last few seasons, until we calculated ourselves into a corner.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the AFL has no authority to demand to investigate the bank accounts of players or their families?
Thus they would never know what any player was actually paid, in any given year?
I'm sure the ATO would have a record of the exact figures on group certificates etc, BUT doubting the AFL has access to that information either?

There's always ways around these scenarios; but it's when it all unravels down the track, like it did with us, that things become problematic...

1. I believe the AFL integrity dept have a broad range of powers as agreed to by players union and would be in any contract signed.
2. This is the very definition of cap and draft tampering even though TPP might not be breached.
3. Risk versus reward - why would you do all of that, trust a whole heap of people plus need a second set of books where the club can be searched / audited without any notice for one player when the penalty could be - loss of premiership points, loss of players, loss of cash and potential loss of draft picks ?

Agree with you MJ23 - all sounds easy on paper, but is what I imagine is the first thing that the league's auditors would be on the lookout for - and yes, my understanding is their powers are almost akin to the tax office. I therefore DO NOT think clubs would go down this path, despite everyone on this forum constantly bemoaning how every other club must be cheating on their cap.

[jackcass]

Bit of a pity Martin didn't say "Sorry guys, a contract is a contract" and compel the Blues to stick with it.

They did. Martin and Cameron apparently the highest paid players in the league in 2020 due to contract skewing. Then Covid hits and they both lose a huge chunk of it.

[Pies2016]

^ ^ ^
Cheers.

Just to clarify the Stephens situation, a number of observers assume he will automatically head back “ home “ to the state he was drafted from, in this case, South Australia. The majority of his family are located in and around the north west region of Vic, so family reasons don’t come into it in terms of Vic vs S A. He’s quick and he finds it but at some point we need to hold fire on introducing more mids and focus on a bit of height forward of centre.

[alexjvillani]

^^ I heard Ben Ronke is also circulating but probably just a Tom Browne level assumption

[piedys]

Well perhaps they have to mathematically, in order to justify the cap payments.
Presuming this table does in fact have to be submitted to AFL for validation, the 2021 balance sheet may very well read:
J.Martin - $1,500,000.00
and the other players listed to comprise the remainder of total cap tally.

However, there is nothing to stop both player, manager and club settling on say $700,000.00 for 2021, behind closed doors?
That remaining balance of $800,000.00 would be swallowed up by players showing a lower wage [unders] on that 2021 spreadsheet.
Basically the same shenanigans that got us deep into the shit over the last few seasons, until we calculated ourselves into a corner.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the AFL has no authority to demand to investigate the bank accounts of players or their families?
Thus they would never know what any player was actually paid, in any given year?
I'm sure the ATO would have a record of the exact figures on group certificates etc, BUT doubting the AFL has access to that information either?

There's always ways around these scenarios; but it's when it all unravels down the track, like it did with us, that things become problematic...

1. I believe the AFL integrity dept have a broad range of powers as agreed to by players union and would be in any contract signed.
2. This is the very definition of cap and draft tampering even though TPP might not be breached.
3. Risk versus reward - why would you do all of that, trust a whole heap of people plus need a second set of books where the club can be searched / audited without any notice for one player when the penalty could be - loss of premiership points, loss of players, loss of cash and potential loss of draft picks ?

Agree with you MJ23 - all sounds easy on paper, but is what I imagine is the first thing that the league's auditors would be on the lookout for - and yes, my understanding is their powers are almost akin to the tax office. I therefore DO NOT think clubs would go down this path, despite everyone on this forum constantly bemoaning how every other club must be cheating on their cap.

Thanks for the feedback here lads... we are effectively privy to absolute zero as to what goes on in the machinations of an AFL, or NRL club.
As I recall, no AFL club has been penalised for a salary cap breach since Carlton nearly 20 years ago; the two picks they forfeited netted North Wells, and St.Vomit Goddard. That is a very costly long term penalty, you'd agree.

So we can presume though, that negotiations between carlton and Martin started well in advance of that actual trade period, most likely the 12 months prior. That would give them time to make sufficient room in their cap to allow for $1.5M, if we are to believe that figure.

But hypothetically speaking, another club who might be able to entice a big money player away from their current team at trade time at the 11th hour, MIGHT be inclined to have to fudge the books for 12 months, such would be their desperation to obtain that player.
Then make allowances a year latter for that wage and cap to adjust itself. I'm sure it has happened in the past, despite the risk/reward factor being taken into account.

[piedys]

^^ I heard Ben Ronke is also circulating but probably just a Tom Browne level assumption

Ronke can't crack it for a gig, neither can Lewis Taylor.
Surely Ducks must be close to cutting their losses on these two?

[RudeBoy]

^ ^ ^
Cheers.

Just to clarify the Stephens situation, a number of observers assume he will automatically head back “ home “ to the state he was drafted from, in this case, South Australia. The majority of his family are located in and around the north west region of Vic, so family reasons don’t come into it in terms of Vic vs S A. He’s quick and he finds it but at some point we need to hold fire on introducing more mids and focus on a bit of height forward of centre.

I tend to agree with you P2016 on limiting our focus to a KPF. Unless, of course, McRae and Wright are confident that Begg and 'Magic Johnson will fill the void much quicker than expected. One thing I'm confident of, is that Wright is a shrewd recruiter, so I expect he'll improve our list immensely over the next couple of years.

[MJ23]

^
Oliver, Pettraca, Viney, Brayshaw, Langdon, Harmes

Macrae, Dunkly, Treloar, Smith, Hunter, Libba, Bont

Thats without naming the mids sitting across half back or forward.

While we need talls, it starts in the middle and these teams have the sort of 30+ possession line-ups we need

[derkd]

^ ^ ^
Cheers.

Just to clarify the Stephens situation, a number of observers assume he will automatically head back “ home “ to the state he was drafted from, in this case, South Australia. The majority of his family are located in and around the north west region of Vic, so family reasons don’t come into it in terms of Vic vs S A. He’s quick and he finds it but at some point we need to hold fire on introducing more mids and focus on a bit of height forward of centre.

His family are all from Mildura (i know because I live here). He played under 18s in S.A. Given these Covid times playing for a team in Melbourne makes life far easier going home to visit family.

Hence why his preference seems to be Collingwood and or Essendon...but he will have a far harder time getting into the Essendon midfield. Collingwood makes logical sense.

I can't see how we get the deals done without trading out. I have a feeling we will lose someone of relative note this trade period.

[Pies2016]

^ ^ ^

MJ23, To me, the interest in Stephens is pretty simple.
If the club are “ bullish “ he’s a best 22 player for the next few years, then we’re obliged to show interest, particularly if the trade was looking like unders.
Im sure we’re now both a very different and better club under Wright, so you put your faith in him and the footy dept to get it right.
What we don’t want, is to be contracting three new fringe players who cost us $800,000 in total and then we’re automatically out of the game when a quality free agent KPF is available.
I accept finding a focal point is usually the last piece of the premiership window puzzle. Most dynasty teams tended to have built defence and mids first and then polished up the team with a key forward to kick to.
As I said, in the case of players like Lipinski and possibly Stephens, you’re trusting the club to correctly assess that players full potential.

[sherrife]

^ ^ ^

MJ23, To me, the interest in Stephens is pretty simple.
If the club are “ bullish “ he’s a best 22 player for the next few years, then we’re obliged to show interest, particularly if the trade was looking like unders.
Im sure we’re now both a very different and better club under Wright, so you put your faith in him and the footy dept to get it right.
What we don’t want, is to be contracting three new fringe players who cost us $800,000 in total and then we’re automatically out of the game when a quality free agent KPF is available.
I accept finding a focal point is usually the last piece of the premiership window puzzle. Most dynasty teams tended to have built defence and mids first and then polished up the team with a key forward to kick to.
As I said, in the case of players like Lipinski and possibly Stephens, you’re trusting the club to correctly assess that players full potential.

I suspect three decent 22 year old on about 260k each would be an absolute steal. You have to fill your list somehow, and they can't all be first years on absolute peanuts. I really don't think we're short on cash, given we're cutting Cox (~500k), Mayne (not nothing), Greenwood (not nothing). I think it's a gimmick, as others have said in this thread.

In any case, I agree that we're going to end up losing someone decent in order to get the picks we need for Daicos and bonus trades... Though there is also the pre-season draft where we have pick 2, and it seems like lots of clubs are short on cash this year so might need to delist in exchange for not much/nothing.

[Macattacks]

Schlensog Amiss Stengle cost nothing if we are going to use what little biccies we have on the likes of Lipinski Stephens or Krueger.