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stui magpie wrote:This may deserve it's own thread, may not, but I'd have a fair guess this is at least a large part of the reason that Fiona Patten was so easy to negotiate with over the Pandemic Bill.
^ Try substituting not making the selfish and deluded pay tax, not making the selfish and deluded pay their employees in accordance with law or not making the selfish and deluded drive under the speed limit and you'll see just what nonsense that is. There is no logic underpinning that position. "We've all done enough, so the selfish and deluded don't have to" ? Spare me.
Pies4shaw wrote:^ Try substituting not making the selfish and deluded pay tax, not making the selfish and deluded pay their employees in accordance with law or not making the selfish and deluded drive under the speed limit and you'll see just what nonsense that is. There is no logic underpinning that position. "We've all done enough, so the selfish and deluded don't have to" ? Spare me.
big hands clapping!
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Pies4shaw wrote:^ Try substituting not making the selfish and deluded pay tax, not making the selfish and deluded pay their employees in accordance with law or not making the selfish and deluded drive under the speed limit and you'll see just what nonsense that is. There is no logic underpinning that position. "We've all done enough, so the selfish and deluded don't have to" ? Spare me.
I get the logic of that but there is a small, yet persistent corner of my brain that keeps telling me there is something fundamentally different about vaccine mandates and the right to exercise some control over what you put in your own body. I've been broadly supportive of targeted vaccine mandates but must admit I am becoming increasingly less comfortable as the target has expanded. Your argument also doesn't deal with the main thrust of the article- the need for transparency around when the mandates will cease; and the questions around whether the broader mandates still fill a public health purpose (questions raised by public health experts). Rights to free movement, association, employment etc are fundamental human rights which are impacted by the current mandates. If there is an argument that contravening these rights is still necessary for the greater good, it needs to be made and communicated clearly and carefully and to be based on sound evidence. I'm not sure that's the case at the moment.
Yes, I understand that position. I'm not interested in engaging with the article - it's premise is nonsense.
No-one's right to free movement, association or employment is being impacted by anyone else's actions but their own. Not getting vaccinated is - save in a minority of medical cases - a stupid position. It ought not be afforded any credence.
There is no "slippery slope" here - just a minority of numbats who think that their "right" to be imbeciles, cost taxpayers (the ABC reported this morning that 90% of people in Victorian ICUs are unvaccinated) and contract a disease that will communicate to others and with which they will kill other people trumps intelligent thought.
We need to stop pretending that this is a "rights" debate. It isn't. There is no "right" to be demonstrably stupid. There is no "right" to take deliberate action that will kill other people with a virus. All these arseholes have to do is have the vaccine. It's a trivial ask - with overwhelming scientific support that it is the only sensible action to take.
It's always sad when people have car accidents and die because they were doing something extremely stupid. But when people have car accidents because the people driving were doing something extremely stupid and others die, it's an indictable offence.
^ that might work if vaccinated people didn't also contract and spread the virus. But the fact is, vaccinated people do spread the virus. Nearly every Omicron variant transmitted her and North America are from fully vaccinated people.
the virus cant be stopped, thats clear, but vaccinating means less pressure on the hospital and other emergency services, and it does decrease the risk of hospitalization and death. dont want it? fine your CHOICE. but you should also be choosing to stay away from the selfless who do get vaccinated to lesson their risk. people want choice yes? well they can have it but like everything in life there are consequences.
enough have done it so a free for all? no, enough have done it so those with a genuine reason for not getting vaccinated can be safe.
my daughters best friend was diagnosed with stage 4 non hodgkins in january, shes had the year from hell, the second she was given the ok to get the jab she got it, and now has to have one every 2 months. im over the bullshit my body my rights, this is damn war!
you have choice, staying home is a choice.
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
