Victorian proposal to ban the swastika – for or against?

[David]

[stui magpie]

I voted Yes, but.

My first instincts clash. I don't generally like banning things but I also see no reason to permit people to display a clear symbol of hate and anti semitism.

The article raises some good questions but I'm not across the legislation or proposed penalties.

If someone put the Swastika flag up on a flagpole in their front yard, I have no problem making them take it down and potentially a fine, but Jail time would be a stretch without priors I would have thought.

Provided there's some elements of discretion and, dare I say it, common sense allowed for in determining guilt and penalties it would be OK but that might be too much to wish for.

What was the trigger for the banning? Dan didn't just wake one morning with his authoritarian streak itchy and needing feeding, asking himself what he can ban today, surely? Although I wouldn't reject that scenario out of hand, there must have been a trigger?

[David]

[Pies4shaw]

I think we probably need to educate our young people better - if they genuinely think a swastika is just a symbol of transgression or edginess, we have failed as a society to teach them any of the important lessons of the twentieth century.

Sticking up a swastika is a classic performative utterance. It's a form of hate speech. Anyone who can see and has basic reasoning capacity identifies it instantly as a symbolic representation of approval of the murder of millions of people for their "trasngression or edginess". Just transgress or be edgy some other way. Barrack for Carlton, if you have to, paint "666" on your foreheads, become deeply religious - but don't do this.

[David]

[Skids]

In the ancient Indian language of Sanskrit, swastika means "well-being". The symbol has been used by Hindus, Buddhists and Jains for millennia and is commonly assumed to be an Indian sign.


https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29644591

[think positive]

I think we probably need to educate our young people better - if they genuinely think a swastika is just a symbol of transgression or edginess, we have failed as a society to teach them any of the important lessons of the twentieth century.

Sticking up a swastika is a classic performative utterance. It's a form of hate speech. Anyone who can see and has basic reasoning capacity identifies it instantly as a symbolic representation of approval of the murder of millions of people for their "trasngression or edginess". Just transgress or be edgy some other way. Barrack for Carlton, if you have to, paint "666" on your foreheads, become deeply religious - but don't do this.

this, thats all that matters, it caused, and causes so much pain to so many, even today,

[stui magpie]

[David]

Now this ban is about to go national, and I think Michael Bradley in Crikey nails why it's utterly pointless:

https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/11/30/na ... er-dutton/

If Germany had banned the Nazi salute in the 1920s, Hitler would still have come to power. It cannot be viably argued that banning it now will prevent a re-emergence of white supremacist, fascist ideology or politics

[...]

There is a case for criminalising Nazi symbols, as anti-Semitism has been re-emerging generally in recent years, and that case is stronger right now because of the extremely heightened atmosphere and threats caused by the dreadful conflict in Israel/Palestine.

However, I repeat what I’ve said before: It is only the baggage that history has attached to any word, gesture or symbol that renders it dangerous. The law, consequently, must be applied with extreme care, mindful of unintended consequences and ready to be moderated or withdrawn if and when the danger has passed.

The government needs to stop panicking and start breathing.

[Skids]

I tell ya what. My rotation of the 3 Collingwood flags I have on my flagpole has triggered a fair few Wet toast fans in the neighborhood.

I even had one clown across the road telling me it's not a real premiership coz we don't travel as much as them I just gave him a little smile and, walking away said "no doubt about the authenticity of your spoon this year, spoon boy"