Hawthorn's version of the Do Better report

[Mr Miyagi]

Have you read the report? There’s a lot more that hasn’t been made public. From the shocked reactions of those who have, it ain’t pretty.

Hawthorn could have been proactive when Collingwood was getting torched, just straight up admitted they made mistakes too and want to do better. But they kept their mouths shut. It’s the players who were affected, two of whom attempted suicide, who forced Hawthorn to do their review. Collingwood’s Do Better was a lesson for all clubs, all AFL, but other clubs thought they wouldn’t have to look in the mirror. Well here we are. Again.

Yes I have read what is available, but the point remains the presumption of innocence is one of the most important tenents of the law, write me a story and cry me a river. It may well all be true, but assumptions made of a one sided story are not how it's supposed to work, Collingwood interviewed everyone, the accusers and the accused, apparently not in this case.

Good point mate. I agree with you that Clarkson and Fagan deserve to be heard by the investigation and allowed their side of the story. Absolutely 100%. My criticism is more aimed at the club in general, and those who run it. And the AFL, who really did nothing and just let Collingwood bear all the heat for what is system and society wide. The AFLPA as well. It’s basic OHS the head honchos are ignoring for flags and TV ratings and money and protect the boys club. I’ve been pretty vocal about Ginni’s treatment, and Eddie Bets Adelaide stuff re OHS and how players are just treated as commodities. In fact, I put the blame as much on the AFL as Hawthorn.

[watt price tully]

A bit like the Lumumba allegations at Collingwood, the truth of actual events depends on who you ask.

Not really. Nobody has actually ever tried to dispute any of his claims about what happened in his time at the club, just tear down his character, which I think says a lot in its own right.

Correct weight. He was also backed up by quite a few players.

[watt price tully]

Hawthorn should probably stop referring to themselves as the "Family Club"

Nah, just a more realistic definition of Family: most abuse happens in families.

Although that was one of the first things that sprang to mind.

[watt price tully]

During the racism stuff that Collingwood copped, I consistently said that it just didn’t make logical sense that only Collingwood could have partaken in the alleged bad practice. I have finally been vindicated that I was correct.

Exactly. It’s surely across all clubs more or less. Clubs are made up if people, people are part of society.

The Collingwood review went through all aspects of the club. As I understand it, this review is narrow in its focus.

[Cam]

IT will all come down to the strength of the evidence. The defendants will lie until they are uncovered, whichever side that is.

[slangman]

This reports main drawback is that they didn’t interview Clarkson or Fagan.
The fact they didn’t seems a little too amateur and one could come to a conclusion that the person/s who did the report are only after one outcome.

[think positive]

I started at page 1, but skipped ahead.
The other 16 clubs need to do a review, and now.

But this is not an AFL issue. This is an issue in society. Eddie Betts story this morning shows it’s not over yet. He’s playing with his children at a public pool and is asked to leave because he’s making a white couple uncomfortable. The couple should have been shown the door and nothing , NOTHING should have been said to Eddie.

Now he has another wound, more scar tissue to bear.

Disgusting. What year is it?

No different from the bombers young players who were too afraid to speak up for fear of losing their career, except of course that for a lot of indigenous young men this is away out of abject poverty, or really bad living conditions.

As a country, we need to do better.

[tbaker]

The stuff at West Coast and other clubs will surely come out in the next year. It better.

What have you heard?

[Mr Miyagi]

The stuff at West Coast and other clubs will surely come out in the next year. It better.

What have you heard?

Honestly can’t say without naming individuals and what I heard is second hand. Wellingham’s mum is on record saying her son didn’t have any specific racism issues at Collingwood, but he did at West Coast. i know racist jokes etc were said in front of indigenous players and staff, for example. And again, indigenous players’s experiences and concerns getting ignored in the ruthless pursuit of flags. That’s society wide in WA though, they’re like Pauline Hanson’s Queensland but with more money and cocaine.

I’m not a Stokes fan, but he’s right what he says here:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/goy ... 5bjxh.html

[stui magpie]

The pregnancy termination is inexcusable. However, it is normal for football clubs to encourage new recruits to move out of the family home and share house with a more experienced player to help fast track the development of their careers.

I am not convinced that asking the 3 players to move out of their homes was racially motivated.

An action doesn't need to be racially motivated to have a racist impact, same principle as indirect discrimination isn't motivated by a direct desire to be discriminatory.

Asking a kid to move out of the family home is different. They aren't being asked to cut all ties with their partner and children. They can still call mum and dad, go home for a visit or a meal.

[Bucks5]

I find it quite interesting, Collingwood's report had clear examples of racism and direct racial abuse.

The Hawthorn report is full of examples of how poorly treated indigenous footballers are, but I do wonder the treatment was racially motivated or whether the white recruits were treated the same but it became racial because the report only focused on Indigenous players rather than the broader playing group.

All new recruits would struggle with having all aspects of their life controlled (diet, behaviour, sleep, etc.). It would also be no big surprise if clubs did encourage all their young players to avoid the distraction of personal relationships during their early development years.

Then there is the relocation factor for recruits who have to move out of the family home to live somewhere closer to the club, which again is a huge challenge for all players.

What would apply is the big lifestyle change from moving away from an indigenous lifestyle/culture and adapting to life in suburban Melbourne. All recruits have to deal with social isolation, home sickness, etc. but these young indigenous players also have to adapt to a huge cultural change and they should be given all the proper supports. Hopefully, that is one of the main outcomes from the report.

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

Firstly everything we did in the Do Better Report is vindicated despite all the flak we received at the time. The bottom line is, at Collingwood, indigenous players have a safe and welcoming environment to come and play football.

To come to the Hawthorn situation, if these allegations are true Alister Clarkson and Chris Fagan deserve everything that comes their way. What I’m alarmed at however is that neither were interviewed for this report. Presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of our legal system here. This isn’t a few racist and homophobic jokes. To tell a player’s girlfriend to go have an abortion is a very serious allegation. Could the player have misconstrued what the club was saying? Telling a player who they should mix with, if the comment is based on race, is also a serious allegation. But none of us know the circumstances here. Maybe the player was hanging out with a group who were taking drugs? Remember most of us on this board were saying that it was bad idea for Jordan De Goey to hang around with his New York friend who got him into trouble at the night club.

What we don’t want here is a witch-hunt. Both Alister Clarkson and Chris Fagan deserve the right of reply to address the allegations made. If true their careers are effectively over. The AFL are absolutely correct in launching an independent investigation. Now the report is released I don’t think it’s appropriate for the Hawthorn Football Club to continue the investigation. This should be all handed over to the AFL. Once the investigation is completed recommendations should go back to Hawthorn, to implement a range of actions similar to what we did at Collingwood, to ensure a safe environment for indigenous players.

[glasseyevfx]

I'm with you on the race issue. For it to be a race issue the behaviour needs to be targeted toward the player because of colour or ethnicity.
The Adelaide fiasco was a camp that anyone could be offended with.
What stands out to me is that some coaches and clubs think workplace law doesn't apply to them. If another workplace told employees to cut ties with their family there would be marching in the streets let alone abducting them or forcing disclosures etc.

I also think this PC crap about educating the coaches is rubbish - there comes a time when you need to say this is a person of bad character and shouldn't be in charge of people. James Hird should have a permanent ban on him - Thats the AFL being wishy washy. Perhaps litigation is the only way people will take notice.

[tbaker]

It's staggering that something like this was published without getting the other side of the story. Massive legal ramifications, with the named individuals able to sue for defamation if they are vindicated or perhaps even if the claims are greatly exaggerated. It has tarnished them no doubt.

I can't see how the investigation can be complete in just a few weeks, leaving Fagan and Clarkson and their clubs in a difficult position.

[think positive]

The other dude mentioned has just stood down from his position at a top Melbourne school.

This is going to be far reaching.