#2 Jordan De Goey

[Piesnchess]

^ I don't think so. St Kilda has allegedly offered over $1M a year for 5 years. We are said to be at about $850K.

JDG will never see a flag with that deadbeat club, their window opened an inch, then slammed shut.

[glasseyevfx]

my worry is that if he gets a 5 year contract he will blend into the team without becoming the exceptional player he is capable of. I think he performs better with a clear purpose in front of him, like fixing his reputation or padding his contract.
I think it smart they put in a behavior clause afl football players need to be above and beyond what is expected of others his age.

[Monco Matt]

I don't know what this behaviour clause is (who does?). But, if it is basically saying to stop acting like a dickhead in public social situations and getting caught on camera and to wise up, grow up and start acting your age then I am all for it.

JDG needs to man-up, sign the damn contract and get on with committing a small part of his life to the CFC and help us win a fuggin flag. Tired of being a nearly, almost football club.

[hermie]

[quote="eddiesmith"][quote="Culprit"]Everyone is tradeable, the offer is fair and reasonable. If he wants to go then get a deal done. You don't want to lose him but you don't want the tail wagging the dog either.

Except as a restricted free agent there is no trade. He walks and Collingwood probably gets pick 16 or so in compensation.


We can match it because he is restricted..and the more the contract is worth the better the compo pick is for us

[swoop42]

It's quite apt isn't it that the only other club wanting the signature of De Goey is one in St Kilda, a club once given the moniker of the party boys club.

They're also a club that's won 1 flag in 125 years.

No one expects Jordan to be a Saint (pun intended) but he's a lad, a likeable one seemingly but like all lads they seem to invite drama even if they don't go looking for it.

If the club are offering 5 years I'm not going to condemn them if they are wanting to try and put some protections in place. The last thing we need is another Beams like situation unfold.

Personally I'd be surprised if they're as onerous as some are imagining.

[lazzadesilva]

JDG will never see a flag with that deadbeat club, their window opened an inch, then slammed shut.

Absolutely correct. The simple equation for JDG is that if he wishes to be a part of a flag team, it’s bloody stupid to consider st kilda because I can’t see them winning a GF for years to come.

[swoop42]

Due to our interest in McStay as a F/A Jordan probably has the upper hand in negotiations.

If he doesn't accept our current offer and signals his intention to join St Kilda we aren't in a situation to just accept a F/A first round compensation selection because it will be diluted by the arrival of McStay under the same mechanism.

We can obviously match an offer and seek to force a trade but it's my understanding that if we do that Jordan can choose to remain at Collingwood under the terms offered by St Kilda. Given all the indications suggest he's happy at Collingwood and wants to remain it can't be completely discounted.

The other option would be to trade for McStay to protect F/A compensation for De Goey but any offer for him would have to be as good as what the formula will provide Brisbane. At best that would likely mean handing over a second round selection but this would still effectively dilute the value of De Goey and his 1st round compensation selection. If the formula dictates an end of first round compensation selection then it would be pointless trading for McStay as we'd be simply swapping one 1st round selection for another.

It looks like our best option is for Jordan to blink first and sign the contract offer in front of him.

If he digs his heels in then we have to decide between succumbing to his demands and removing the behavioural clauses or betting on him not remaining at Collingwood after we match the more generous terms on offer at the Saints.

[neds elbow]

Imagine if the deal-breaker is a clause that requires professional standards of behaviour from a professional footballer. Perhaps the Stains are offering Get out of Jail free cards as an enticement

[think positive]

Everyone is tradeable, the offer is fair and reasonable. If he wants to go then get a deal done. You don't want to lose him but you don't want the tail wagging the dog either.

Spot on...

We also have the whip hand with the right to match. Not sure how the behavioural clauses would work in that sense. It may well be that we are already offering more than the next best bid (remember we have also increased our offer from 4 to 5 years).

I agree

C’mon Jordy club has stood by you over and over, just sign!

[pietillidie]

Unfortunately, we don't know if the behavioural clauses are medically and scientifically rational, not to mention ethical, for someone with ADHD.

That means it's very hard to judge the merits of Jordy's or the club's positions on those clauses (if indeed the media information thus far is even accurate). Hold fire on judging until we get more insight. I can tell you right now that no one on earth who is both vaguely moral and an expert in the condition would accept as ethical any clause that assumes perfect behaviour, perfect memory, and perfectly considered action for someone with ADHD. No one.

There's a simple way to do this right. Get the club's medical and medical law specialists, and Jordy's medical and medical law specialists, to work something mutually acceptable and scientifically founded and fair. Get the arrangement signed off by medical bodies of authority as a best practice agreement for people with the condition. That way due diligence has been done, and both the lad and the club are covered.

Rest assured, I am not the only person who will see sub-scientific behavioural clauses as a monstrous ethical violation in disregard of the lad's medical diagnosis, so there is a hell of a lot riding on the specifics. I would assume the mental health and medical professions are watching the club on this already; neither Jordy nor the club need to be the centrepiece of a national PR campaign making us a target of wrath for every mental health body, organisation and sufferer for getting this wrong.

[think positive]

Hehe, yeah, ok then the club needs to get full results and what treatment in that case, if they are spending that much money on him. there are. MAny many people diagnosed with ADHD, and they manage to behave. I doubt many stand up in court and blame it and get let off for it. AFL is a business. We are in the business of trying yo win premierships. I reckon he’s a big boy and can rein it it. Does he want to play in a premiership window team or languish in a bottom 8 team.

He’s been brilliant in parts of games this second half of the season. Collingwood stood by him for the frisbee, the drink driving, speeding, and his various nightclub antics, time to repay that faith. I reckon he will, he likes winning. He certainly didn’t look on the outs with his team mates.

[pietillidie]

We are in the business of trying yo win premierships. I reckon he’s a big boy and can rein it in.

People can't 'rein in' all the side effects of an incurable condition. They can apply best practice treatments and put a best endeavours in place and work to minimise them. Think people with balance problems minimising falls, but still having the odd fall.

To reiterate, to expect perfect cognition at all times for this condition, in the same way normies might operate (consider > plan > execute accordingly/ remember to execute accordingly), is as cruel as expecting someone with epilepsy to never have a seizure, and then to blame them for being distracted when having one.

That doesn't mean he can't win games off his own boot and be as impactful as anyone else paid whatever, if not outperform them. Drawing that conclusion is the very definition of discrimination for every organisation, business or not.

A much more subtle form of discrimination involves applying double standards, such that you put undue conditions on someone with a protected characteristic, such as a disability, that you don't apply to others. E.g., you might tolerate the PR disasters of Eddie McGuire, and not have a clause in his contract penalising him, knowing full well about his foibles and history, but then invent a special clause penalising someone else. But why do it for one and not another? This is why 'comparators' are key elements of discrimination cases (i.e., comparisons which show differential treatment, standards and expectations).

Businesses are sued all the time for discrimination, no matter that they're 'businesses', although perhaps less so in Putin's Russia or some chatoic shitehole. Just a reminder:

In Australia, it is unlawful to discriminate on the basis of a number of protected attributes including age, disability, race, sex, intersex status, gender identity and sexual orientation in certain areas of public life, including education and employment.

And yes, getting this right is complicated. But that's because life and creating a high quality society that doesn't devolve into a dark social cleansing that cruelly punishes the disabled or different, starting with children, and that encourages everyone to be their best selves, and wrangles the best outcomes for everyone and the whole, even as people who think they're superior humans who should be free of such obligations try to work against this, is complicated.

[piedys]

We know all 5 year contracts these days are effectively 3-4 year contracts with out-clauses tied to salary cap dumps.

3-4 years is our window at present; pull the trigger.

[think positive]

We are in the business of trying yo win premierships. I reckon he’s a big boy and can rein it in.

blah blah blah

he doesnt have epilepsy, or balance problems, dont insult people with actual disabilities. he has behavioural issues, he can get help with that, hes getting help with that, but clearly since hes still got his idiot brother in law as a manager, he still wants yes men around him! hopefully that changes, and he realises its time to pull on his big boy panties!

im not fussed, still, yes, love to keep him, but no player is worth over a million a year, maybe if they win EVERY game off their own boot, but he doesnt. he has plenty where hes just another player. im not bashing him, im being honest. sign Jordy, be part of the team. $850k provided you dont get yourself locked up is pretty good coin. and really, considering there are how many players? the vast majority would happily sign for that! im really hoping itds as good as a done deal, and the club are doing the decent thing and waiting out the GF.

if not well boooooooooooooooooooooo

[think positive]

We know all 5 year contracts these days are effectively 3-4 year contracts with out-clauses tied to salary cap dumps.

3-4 years is our window at present; pull the trigger.

this