Rucking Duties

[23 YIPPEE!!!]

Any updates on Begg time he played he too is a ruck man

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

How about this Johnson as key ruck with Frampton.

Reef covers Frampton down back when he goes into the ruck.

Problem solved.

Or have Moore at FB and Reef can go to CHB lets say.

Along we have Murphy who can ruck also.

Keep the forward line set up the way it is.

Actually it’s not. It’s as much about weight as it is about height. Johnson is about 193cm and has a good leap, but he just gets brushed aside by a 100kg+ ruckman. Plus he’s a fantastic mark and a good kick, so he’s much better value around the forward line. McStay is the one we could sacrifice in the centre, but he showed he wasn’t up to it against Brisbane. I wouldn’t think McStay would be any better against St Kilda.

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

Any updates on Begg time he played he too is a ruck man

I heard he’s over his back issues but now has to get his match fitness back. I would have thought he’s weeks away from resuming and that would be VFL, not AFL.

[stui magpie]

I’d prefer playing an actual ruckman like Steene against another ruckman, like Marshall, and watch Marshall dismantle him, than play McStay, who isn’t suited to playing in the ruck, or Frampton, who is just finding his feet as a back man. Reason? Steene has to learn sooner or later. Why not against a quality ruckman like Marshall? Steene could end up being our main ruckman for the next 10 years. Hardening him up against quality ruckmen could accelerate his training at AFL level if it doesn’t destroy him. This will not only be a challenge for Steene, but a challenge for McRae as a coach as well. Interesting next few weeks to watch the team. Just don’t expect the wins to come as easily as the first three.

I'd agree with this, he's going to come up against some big bodies in the VFL and have little to no backup, why not learn at AFL level.

[npalm]

^^^ Fly has had many years as a development coach and as an assistant coach. If his experience tells him that you don't set kids up to fail by playing them at the senior level before they're ready then I'm prepared to accept that.

There's also the case that not all kids are the same. Some could take a thrashing at AFL level and take it in their stride but many others would be totally deflated and have their development significantly set back. Again, I'm prepared to accept that Fly will have assessed Steene's make-up and decided accordingly.

[Magpietothemax]

^^^ Fly has had many years as a development coach and as an assistant coach. If his experience tells him that you don't set kids up to fail by playing them at the senior level before they're ready then I'm prepared to accept that.

There's also the case that not all kids are the same. Some could take a thrashing at AFL level and take it in their stride but many others would be totally deflated and have their development significantly set back. Again, I'm prepared to accept that Fly will have assessed Steene's make-up and decided accordingly.

I agree.
Moreover, I am still to understand how the presence of Steene actually would help us to win the game. How would his being thrashed in the ruck contests, and being unable to hold his own against big bodied AFL talls in marking contests contribute tangibly to a victory over the opposition?
I did not want Frampton to be removed from the backline against Brisbane, because i thought it would compromise our defence which has been playing so well. However, St Kilda has a small forward line, so maybe this is the game where our defence will be sustainable with Frampton playing the main ruck role (perhaps assisted by AJ at times). Frampton can take marks, and can at least make a contest in the ruck. McStay needs to go back into the forward line where he can make a positive contribution.

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

^^^ Fly has had many years as a development coach and as an assistant coach. If his experience tells him that you don't set kids up to fail by playing them at the senior level before they're ready then I'm prepared to accept that.

There's also the case that not all kids are the same. Some could take a thrashing at AFL level and take it in their stride but many others would be totally deflated and have their development significantly set back. Again, I'm prepared to accept that Fly will have assessed Steene's make-up and decided accordingly.

I agree.
Moreover, I am still to understand how the presence of Steene actually would help us to win the game. How would his being thrashed in the ruck contests, and being unable to hold his own against big bodied AFL talls in marking contests contribute tangibly to a victory over the opposition?
I did not want Frampton to be removed from the backline against Brisbane, because i thought it would compromise our defence which has been playing so well. However, St Kilda has a small forward line, so maybe this is the game where our defence will be sustainable with Frampton playing the main ruck role (perhaps assisted by AJ at times). Frampton can take marks, and can at least make a contest in the ruck. McStay needs to go back into the forward line where he can make a positive contribution.

Whoever plays against Marshall next weekend is going to be annihilated in the ruck. However if it's Frampton we lose valuable games from him in the backline where he's really only a backman of 12 months standing in the AFL. If McStay plays there we lose his connection with the forward line of only a few games standing with the other Collingwood forwards. If Steene plays in the ruck for us against Marshall he will win a few taps when Marshall is rested. It won't be 40+ taps against us that it was against Brisbane. Steene has a 10cm better reach than either McStay or Frampton, neither who are capable of jumping at the ruck contests. If McRae deems Steene not ready to play, then the only one we have is Moore. We don't have anyone else.

[lazzadesilva]

If McRae deems Steene not ready to play, then the only one we have is Moore. We don't have anyone else.

Or we play jumping Johnson just to compete so as to not to give them a free run.

[Jezza]

Much as I would prefer is to win I can’t see how Collingwood can win without a Ruckman. It’s not just the centre clearances but around the ground and assisting the defence. That’s why I think we might need to go with OS. StKilda’s Marshall is an excellent mobile and strong ruckman. OS might be thrown to the wolves but the other options risk major structural changes and the consequences that might be associated with them.

Agree. I was saying the other night that the coaching staff may not have a choice but to now select OS.

You could see on Thursday that the ruck situation got our structures out of whack and we were even getting pinged for violating the 6-6-6 rule on multiple occasions because of the confusion that ensued.

[23 YIPPEE!!!]

Agree has to Oscar now.

There is no other option.

[sourav04]

Watching the Bombers game, these 2 ruck's will absolutely kill us and not feeling great about the Saints game either.

[tbaker]

It wouldn't surprise me if we presisted with what we tried against Brisbane - we will be a little bit wiser & smarter (i.e. the 6-6-6 infringements shouldn't happen again). We were playing in a hostile environment where it's hard to win. Remember too that McStay was coming up against his old side for the first time, so may have been a bit nervous & jittery. Not time to go for a complete change yet methinks. But if we lose to the saints something will have to change...

[gobbles21]

For those who think Steene is ready…

He had 10 hit outs in the VFL - 47 against him.

Collingwood 14 to 54 for the match. The kid’s played 3 VFL games and is out of his depth there at the moment. What logic suggests he’d get any benefit from being torn to shreds at AFL level? And there is absolutely zero logic to suggest it will strengthen our senior side.

Darcy Fort, his main opponent for most of the game had 20 possessions, 11 clearances and 3 goals.

He tore Steene to shreds.

[Harrysz]

The reality is that Collingwood has insufficient ruck depth. Aiden Begg didn't show much when he was tried but anyway he's injured. Accordingly there's no good answer to this problem. The selectors have to choose the least bad solution which probably means the solution which causes the least disruption. Playing McStay and or Johnston will weaken the forward line. Playing Frampton will weaken the backline. Whatever we do we have to rob Peter to pay Paul, but the chances are that Paul still won't get paid.

We have to accept whatever the selectors decide because they have the knowledge and they should make the best decision in the circumstances. My only caveat is that Darcy Moore should not be chosen to play in the ruck. If he got injured we'd be turning a disaster into a catastrophe.

If we want to make top 4 we have to beat teams like St Kilda and Essendon. Our current situation makes that more difficult.

[SwansWay]

We don’t have insufficient ruck depth. We’re just extraordinarily unfortunate that our two starting rucks are both injured and our back-up third string ruck too. You can’t recruit 11 ruckmen onto the list incase 10 are all injured.