"The Circle" can VC recipient.

[watt price tully]

[Pies4shaw]

[David]

^ Yes, I was thinking of that too. And even less consequential stories like the Australian unit driving around the Afghan desert with a Nazi flag on their vehicle. There’s a pretty dark undercurrent revealed in these reports that I think undercuts the narrative of Roberts-Smith just being a bad apple. There are clearly people with strong principles and admirable character in the army; whether they’re in the majority or the ones shaping military culture is not so clear to me.

[David]

I don’t believe you respect authority at all

Do you?

For those who do, I’d actually be curious to know why.

People are in power to various extents in different realms of society. Ben Roberts-Smith was one of them: he had power over the lives of Afghan civilians in his neck of the woods, because he was a big man with a gun and a checkpoint. He was also in a position of power within his unit, and his fellow soldiers were afraid of him and what he might do to them if they crossed him. Is that the kind of authority we should respect?

One can reasonably argue that power and authority are necessary in any society, on many levels. When you’re a child, you have parents and teachers, and then later you have bosses and maybe sports coaches. All the while, you have a government, and judges, and police. How do you respond to that authority? Do you trust it? Do you believe that the position justifies whichever actions flow from it? Or do you need to preserve some capacity for independent thinking, criticism and doubt when needed, and even willingness to resist?

I’m guessing most (though certainly not all) people would say "yes" to the latter. So how does that square with "respecting" authority?

[think positive]

You’re twisting it. I have respect for the vast majority of cops and armed forces that do the right thing.

As I respected teachers coaches and even umpires that deserve my respect.

I see the good and the positives, you seem to think everyone in authority is out to get you or what ever they can get. I actually believe the majority want to save/hellp people

[David]

[watt price tully]

https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/06/02/be ... mes-anzac/

I hope now we can stop the overly gratuitous and overly nationalistic Anzac Day mythology. Sure have the solemn day with recognition but not the jingoistic / nationalist crap that goes with it and it’s particularly unAustralian.

Ben Roberts Smith narcissism funded by the arrogance of the wealthy elites indeed being found to be a lying murderer on the balance of probabilities, may have done us all a favour.

[think positive]

God bless America!

I **** love the pomp and ceremony at every sporting event big or small!

Memorial Day at Charlotte raceway is something I will never forget!

Celebrate, remember, give thanks, to the vast majority that deserve it, or be miserable insincere apologetic bastard!

**** love Anzac day at the G, it’s magnificent and respectful.

[stui magpie]

^

The USA is a mess of contradictions though, as you likely would have seen.

While they make a big deal about memorial day and all sorts of hoo hah over serving military, everywhere you go you find homeless and often disabled veterans begging for money.

[David]

Yep, and I think that says something about whom all this jingoism is for and whom it benefits. It certainly isn’t those who’ve served.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/06/02/ben-roberts-smith-war-crimes-anzac/

Great and sobering piece. Everyone should read it.

[roar]

I don’t believe you respect authority at all

Not even Eric Cartman?

[stui magpie]

^

That may be the exception.

[stui magpie]

Yep, and I think that says something about whom all this jingoism is for and whom it benefits. It certainly isn’t those who’ve served.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/06/02/ben-roberts-smith-war-crimes-anzac/

Great and sobering piece. Everyone should read it.

Paywalled.

[slangman]

“We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us.” - Winston Churchill

Be careful about passing judgment on actions during war from the comfort of your lounge room.

[David]

Does "be careful" mean pass judgement after careful consideration, or squib it entirely?

Some of us are happy for wars to be carried out in their name but get squeamish and defensive if they have to look too closely at how the sausage is made. Others of us have moral principles and don’t see foreigners as scum to be exterminated at will every time a "rough man" wants to blow off a bit of steam. #&$% him and anyone who is an apologist for him.