Post Match. Pies down to Dees. All comments.

[Uncle Jack]

He's still young with strong potential but he fades under intense pressure. Hopefully another preseason brings him up to speed.

Is he a liability in the games we really need him? We've had 4 losses since this time last year in which he's kicked a total of 3 goals. He went missing yesterday, subbed off with 3 disposals and the prelim v Sydney netted 2 disposals. Poor precedent to set.

I agree there’s a question mark on him and they will learn more about him in weeks to come. McStay will come back and that will / could allow him to stay much closer to goal. He’s fairly one dimensional and he gets exposed up the ground, particularly when he’s worked hard to compete and he’s got nothing left when he’s stuck in a one on one. I like it that we play both Lions and Cats in two of the last three home and aways. That’s good opposition and that’s where players will get their chance to stake a claim for a flag tilt. He’s got time but right now, he’s no lock every week.

Not sure that McStay is the straight swap answer. Early sesaon games would say no. Kreuger's 5 goals on Sunday would probably indicate a better option. Although hazardous to his footballing future, his ability to crash a pack opens up forward opportunities.

[Take_a_Screamer]

The Mason Cox Show @ 24:00 Melbourne vs Collingwood
https://youtu.be/305VY06dvZ8

[Pies2016]

Is he a liability in the games we really need him? We've had 4 losses since this time last year in which he's kicked a total of 3 goals. He went missing yesterday, subbed off with 3 disposals and the prelim v Sydney netted 2 disposals. Poor precedent to set.

I agree there’s a question mark on him and they will learn more about him in weeks to come. McStay will come back and that will / could allow him to stay much closer to goal. He’s fairly one dimensional and he gets exposed up the ground, particularly when he’s worked hard to compete and he’s got nothing left when he’s stuck in a one on one. I like it that we play both Lions and Cats in two of the last three home and aways. That’s good opposition and that’s where players will get their chance to stake a claim for a flag tilt. He’s got time but right now, he’s no lock every week.

Not sure that McStay is the straight swap answer. Early sesaon games would say no. Kreuger's 5 goals on Sunday would probably indicate a better option. Although hazardous to his footballing future, his ability to crash a pack opens up forward opportunities.

Just to clarify, I’m not talking about McStay replacing Johnson, I meant that I would like to see Johnson at least get a chance with McStay ( or even Krueger ) in the same side.
Whatever we think of Johnson, he will always do his best work starting from the goal square, so the key is to have him start there and someone else do the hard, repeat effort work further up the ground. It shouldn’t be Checkers either because you don’t want our leading goal kicker taking every possession around the centre of the ground either. McStay is a workhorse who at least has the tank and the body to do that grunt work all day up and down the ground. It could yet be Krueger but they invested in McStay for a reason and that’s to predominantly play in front of the stay at home forwards ( whoever they are ) In short, Johnson is currently best suited to playing as the third tall and starting from the goal square. If that’s the way the club want to go, then I reckon he’s our man. If the club want to structure up differently and with more defensive crumbers, then I think he’s in trouble. When McStay comes back and if Krueger finally gets a decent run at it, the final make up of the front six is going to make for a very interesting talking point.

[What'sinaname]

Is he a liability in the games we really need him? We've had 4 losses since this time last year in which he's kicked a total of 3 goals. He went missing yesterday, subbed off with 3 disposals and the prelim v Sydney netted 2 disposals. Poor precedent to set.

You're being a bit tough. Playing Sydney in Sydney in their GF year and against Melbourne who have one of the best backlines.

[What'sinaname]

Those who said Melbourne was a six goal better team, you were close. AFLxScore expected score:

MELB actual 66 versus expected 87
COLL actual 62 versus expected 59

If players scored as expected from where they kicked the ball, Melbourne would have scored 87 vs Collingwood 59.

[Jpies]

I agree there’s a question mark on him and they will learn more about him in weeks to come. McStay will come back and that will / could allow him to stay much closer to goal. He’s fairly one dimensional and he gets exposed up the ground, particularly when he’s worked hard to compete and he’s got nothing left when he’s stuck in a one on one. I like it that we play both Lions and Cats in two of the last three home and aways. That’s good opposition and that’s where players will get their chance to stake a claim for a flag tilt. He’s got time but right now, he’s no lock every week.

Not sure that McStay is the straight swap answer. Early sesaon games would say no. Kreuger's 5 goals on Sunday would probably indicate a better option. Although hazardous to his footballing future, his ability to crash a pack opens up forward opportunities.

Just to clarify, I’m not talking about McStay replacing Johnson, I meant that I would like to see Johnson at least get a chance with McStay ( or even Krueger ) in the same side.
Whatever we think of Johnson, he will always do his best work starting from the goal square, so the key is to have him start there and someone else do the hard, repeat effort work further up the ground. It shouldn’t be Checkers either because you don’t want our leading goal kicker taking every possession around the centre of the ground either. McStay is a workhorse who at least has the tank and the body to do that grunt work all day up and down the ground. It could yet be Krueger but they invested in McStay for a reason and that’s to predominantly play in front of the stay at home forwards ( whoever they are ) In short, Johnson is currently best suited to playing as the third tall and starting from the goal square. If that’s the way the club want to go, then I reckon he’s our man. If the club want to structure up differently and with more defensive crumbers, then I think he’s in trouble. When McStay comes back and if Krueger finally gets a decent run at it, the final make up of the front six is going to make for a very interesting talking point.

For what it's worth, I would drop Johnson in favour of either McStay or Kreuger. I don't dislike Johnson, but his track record of going missing against the good sides doesn't hold him in good stead for finals. More specifically, he seems to struggle against opposition who are well-structured in defence and don't allow him the space to lead into. In those circumstances, he is fairly ineffective.

Kreuger in my opinion has a lot of upside which is worth exploring, and as someone above pointed out, McStay was recruited for a reason. I suspect Johnson would play better alongside another big key forward who is aerially strong and draws in opposition defenders (like Cox does when he gets to the right spots) which then creates space for Johnson to lead into. But, so would all of our smaller / mid sized forwards. Presuming all available, does Johnson get a game over Mihocek, Elliott, Ginnivan, McCreery, or Bobby Hill? I doubt it.

[rad]

The game against the Dees reminded me of playing WC in 2018.
Checkers plays his heart out every week but McGovern was too big for him and we know how that ended.
Watching May on Monday control Checkers game me the same feel as McGovern. I strongly believe we need a tall at FF all day against a May type defender. McStay might not be a gun FF but may be what we need in huge final games.

[Pies2016]

Interesting to note, Checkers kicked 4 against them last year but May didn’t play. It’s going to be a challenge finding the right formula, albeit it all starts in the middle anyway.
Krueger is a bit of a wild card in all this. He kicked five straight and then missed two more in the last quarter but more importantly, he did it against good VFL opposition ( as opposed to the VFL cellar dwellers ) If Freddy can get through one more VFL game with another haul, that might be enough to give him another chance in the seniors and with a bit of form behind him.

[stoliboy]

Yea Johnson played one of his worst games for the Club but I still think he has a lot of upsides. Is usually a great marker of the ball both inside 50m and on the wing… pretty accurate in front of goal and can kick a goal from outside 50m.

Ash has also kicked at least a goal a game in 10/11 games for us (except the last one) including multiple goals on 3 occasions - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players ... hnson.html

McStay has kicked a goal a game 3 of his 5 games with no multiple goals - https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players ... cStay.html

I’d give Ash a break and see what McStay can do but I’ sure Fly will have a plan… he didn’t drop Bobby Hill after a lacklustre game against Adelaide and that worked well at improving Bobby’s form.

[23 YIPPEE!!!]

What was the wash up from the dees match.

Moore i think is the only concern ankle.

I dont think we had any other injuries.

No MRO either.

Was a clean game in that regard.

[pietillidie]

There's no point over-thinking that sort of game. Mentally and physically, we need the bye, while Melbourne played superbly. You need these losses during the season to help you set new benchmarks.

Take Pendles. He was spent, whether just exhausted overall or he had the dreaded bug. He's a good measure of general physical exhaustion because even though he's older, he's super disciplined and super fit. If the injury count was lower we might have made it to the bye in better shape, but not to be. Lipinski's contribution underscores what depth means.

Young blokes like McCreery and mature elevated players like Johnson, Noble and Frampton need to see what a slight drop off does against a good team.

Cameron needs time to build rhythm. Coxy was one of our best, I thought, but he needed Cameron to hurt them more.

Imagine how exhausted someone like Darcy Moore must be after his season so far.

Even the coaches had a bad one, the most obvious mistake being they used Nicky boy far too late. He and Mitchell were primed to carry us over the line. But remember, even the coaches have been up for a very long time.

We're still another gun midfielder, CHF and CHB short. It won't matter in better times, but it will show playing a top team while also exhausted.

The point being, everything needs to be assessed in context. Injuries were always going to determine our fate because our list is still thin. We'll be smarter next time, pay their tactics more heed, and run over them if our injury list is favourable later in the year.

[3rd degree]

Those who said Melbourne was a six goal better team, you were close. AFLxScore expected score:

MELB actual 66 versus expected 87
COLL actual 62 versus expected 59

If players scored as expected from where they kicked the ball, Melbourne would have scored 87 vs Collingwood 59.

"Maybe's don't make it so" Leo , Miller's Crossing 1990.

[23 YIPPEE!!!]

Yep echo those thoughts there pietillie

We have not had an effective thats effective centre half forward since travis cloke.

Checkers and Johnson are ok but dont kick goals consistently for my liking.

They are not exactly like a jermery cameron and tom hawkins combination.

We are 2 players away from the real flag tilt but not nearly in 2023.

I always thought 2023 was a year of development and 2024 was our year and a year we took on an assult on the flag.

I key CHF and a specailst ruckman is what we need.

Just dont think darcy cameron cuts it.

Like to see Oscar Scenne and Begg given a go soon.

[lazzadesilva]

The point being, everything needs to be assessed in context. Injuries were always going to determine our fate because our list is still thin. We'll be smarter next time, pay their tactics more heed, and run over them if our injury list is favourable later in the year.

I beg to differ. It could be said that considering the amount of injuries we had over recent years, our current injury list was bad but nowhere near as bad. Same with our list, it’s meant to be the strongest since the tragic debacle of the Guy stuff ups. If you are correct, then it’s a terrible concern about our thin list in the second half of the season. Everyone aims to be smarter after a loss but it doesn’t always work out that way. I’m confident that Collingwood will beat teams around and below them but I still worry about our capacity to win games against quality opposition around and above us. It’s a hit or miss state of affairs rather than a confidant no holds barred approach from a team deemed worthy of winning the flag this year. Believe me, this game will be looked back on as the turning point when we missed the chance to assert our dominance over similar teams, which is crucial for flag aspirations this year. The fact remains that Collingwood will have a very good season but will fall short of ultimate success. If they then get it right with not having as thin a list and recruiting for the key positions that other posters have already mentioned, it will make all the difference for them to go to that critical next step. They will go very close this year but for me, no cigar till next season.

[Piesnchess]

I usually like Matty Lloyds comments,but he was way out of line on radio today. Just going on and **** but how great Melb were, how other clubs can learn from them how to beat us, blah blah blah, blah. Does the flog realise we had no less than six stars out, six real play makers, out, including two of our best forwards, Ginnivan and Elliott, ? let alone JDG and Sidearse, ???? Plsu some of our guys were recovering from the flu, and that takes a lot out of you, both physically and mentally, ive had it, few times, you think your OK, but your not really, bones still ache. You would think we lost by six goals, not four lousy points, in his sum up, sure they missed shots, but Carlton do that every match, and we miss them too, bad kicking for goal is bad footy. I really cant wait to play these Deees again in the Finals with our best team on the park, put ponce Lloyd right back in his box, I have no doubt bout that. !