Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[pietillidie]

As we keep saying, this is locked in by nutcases on both sides. I feel very sorry for the average sane person on either side surrounded by scumbags who live off this conflict.

Netanyahu and his and settlement-building loony acolytes have drained every last drop of likeability from Israel, making it more vulnerable than ever in the process. The repulsive turd is as bad as Trump, whom he's clearly trying to out-felony, wreck, repulse, grift and combover.

If the US drops its support, Israel will be obliterated in five minutes, so the status quo has to continue.

But you can't trap peasant kids on your doorstep in a cesspit of rage and helplessness, keep implying they're lesser beings, support aggravating settlement-building religious fruitcakes against global norms and expectations, and seek to dismantle your own legal system while claiming moral and civilisational superiority and expect to be admired, FFS.

[David]

It just fills you with despair how predictable this deadly pantomime show is. This isn't and never will be a fair fight: anything Palestinians do to fight for their land, legitimate or otherwise, will be repaid with 10x force, specifically meaning the further slaughter of civilians and wanton destruction of vital infrastructure by the Israeli army.

So in this case, beyond the desperation of being backed into a corner and having no option but to endure life in a prison state indefinitely, it's hard to understand what militants hoped to achieve by crossing over into government-controlled Israel and going full Anders Breivik on whomever they found in border villages; obviously the suffering of Israeli civilians and foreign tourists will only be repaid with countless more suffering of innocents in the Gaza Strip. Extremism is repaid with extremism on both sides, as we've seen with the ever more repulsive and cruel Israeli government and spasms of quickly subdued violence from Palestinian militants.

At this stage, I'm not sure anyone even has any other plan except for more of the same of what we've seen over the past decades, only worse. Not that this would ever happen, but one can only wish that the UN or some equivalent body were capable of stepping in, organising a ceasefire and taking over management of the entire territory until an independent Palestine is assured, the Israeli settlements are rolled back, international laws are enforced and a non-aggression pact is set in stone. If it was good enough for Bosnia and Herzegovina, it's most certainly appropriate here.

[think positive]

Yep. Attacking military targets is one thing. Capturing 50 hostages and parading a dead German tourist is another.

at a peace festival.

and bombing a school where civilians are sheltering.

its crazy to me this is still happening. Its a small strip of land, looks like they wont stop til its no mans land.

This is not war, its terrorism and murder.

a while back i watched a doco-movie on it, all i could think was, just move out. imagine living with the fear all the time.

and they kidnapped an 85 year old woman? WYF! tough guys

[stui magpie]

That attack on the music festival is pure terrorism.

Turned the power off and had jeeps full of armed soldiers waiting outside to just strafe them as they came out. 260 innocent civilians deliberately murdered. Not a great way to attract sympathy to your cause.

[think positive]

That attack on the music festival is pure terrorism.

Turned the power off and had jeeps full of armed soldiers waiting outside to just strafe them as they came out. 260 innocent civilians deliberately murdered. Not a great way to attract sympathy to your cause.

I honestly cant imagine how you get more than a few nutcases to actually do this. Bunch of half naked kids, half of em probably high, clearly none with weapons. just damn evil.

im looking at the maps, where do these Hamas live? edit, ah, Syria. the opposite side, why is it their business? but then Alaska is the US, with Canada in between!

why is gaza not part of Israel?

they need a wall, a big and a moat!

[stui magpie]

It's a historical mess. The Gaza Strip isn't a country or even part of a country, it's sort of Government is Hamas which is a declared terrorist organisation.

Egypt and Isreal should just make a deal, take half each, roll in the armies, kill or chase out the terrorists, give the occupants full rights as either Egyptian or Isreali citizens and start fixing the fkn mess.

They can still call themselves Palestinians or whatever they like, but at least they might have actual access to the basics like food, shelter, education, health and work.

[David]

[slangman]

The issues in the Middle East will unfortunately continue forever and I cannot see how it will ever be resolved.
Both sides have and will continue to argue their side but unless one concedes, this will continue.

Geez we are lucky to be living in Australia!!!

[stui magpie]

David asked what they hoped to achieve?

https://www.theage.com.au/world/middle- ... 5eams.html

[swoop42]

Let's not pretend that Israel doesn't have a whole lot of blood on their hands in this ongoing conflict.

The difference is when they kill Palestinian men, women and children that blood is generally hidden under a pile of rubble.

Amazing how different the reaction is when you don't get the easy option of not witnessing the dead.

The only people who'll win out of this are the hard right Zionists and the Muslim extremists.

Both are fueled by a hate that comes from the same place and once again the innocent will pay the highest price.

[think positive]

[think positive]

Let's not pretend that Israel doesn't have a whole lot of blood on their hands in this ongoing conflict.

The difference is when they kill Palestinian men, women and children that blood is generally hidden under a pile of rubble.

Amazing how different the reaction is when you don't get the easy option of not witnessing the dead.

The only people who'll win out of this are the hard right Zionists and the Muslim extremists.

Both are fueled by a hate that comes from the same place and once again the innocent will pay the highest price.

This was pretty much my hubby’s response when I said how disgusting it was to massacre the festival people and those hiding in the school. He said the Israelis should get out and never should have gone there back in…long time ago! I said where did they come from? They didn’t just appear!
Stuis suggestions make the most sense.

Funny, I know we left Cyprus because the conflict was escalating, but I was a toddler, and I just cannot imagine living like that.

In this day and age, I mean come on. When does common sense hit!

[pietillidie]

Be sure to consume a balanced media coverage on this, folks.

For myself, at least, I consider the implicature that a dead Palestinian child is worth less than a dead Israeli child to be an egregious form of racism.

I'm actually fuming in about ten directions right now! Leadership has been so sorely lacking here in the UK, in the US due to that fruitcake Trump, and of course in Israel due to the original and best Trump, Netanyahu.

The easy approach of course is to focus on the professional terrorists and their sponsors, Iran and Russia. But a good deal of this is about the peasant cesspit of the Gaza Strip, the world's largest, most dysfunctional prison whose keys are held by others. The unemployed son of a peasant father throwing rocks whose grandmother is hiding a terrorist in her wardrobe is not a professional terrorist. He's a pitiful human-made tragedy trying to survive, forced to get by today.

Then, there's the utterly repugnant Netanyahu and nut case Israeli far right.

And Saudi Arabia. You know, the country whose terrorists were overwhelmingly behind 9/11. The prison state that stones women and murders journalists, and has turned Yemen into a giant graveyard of school children. The country who in league with Putin's Russia and their OPEC oil cartel drove up global inflation to dig a knife into the wounds of the global economy post-Covid, when the world was on its knees, making the poor from America to the most deprived and sick children in Africa suffer some more just for fun.

The UK selling arms to Saudi Arabia, and golfers and footballers sportswashing them for a few quid, sickens me some more.

And the US and Israel want to normalise relations with that psychopathic entity? In contrast, Ukraine want to become part of the EU. Think about that contrasting set of hopes for a moment, and the confused mix of policy that gets some things right, and some thing hopelessly wrong.

And think of the scumbags like Tony Abbott who denied climate change and helped scupper the green energy transition at every turn to give Saudi Arabia and Russia the power, for longer, to fund their global terrorism and destruction. And yes, many of them like Abbott live among us.

So, there's the piss easy view of this, and there's actual reality. When we don't take the smart high ground, grabbing quick wins and easy money from thugs and conmen, the debt accumulates, and the cost is delayed until it isn't. That's not legitimate economic growth, political victory or successful leadership.

And for the millionth time, energy security is everyone's security. Fair economic arrangements that give everyone a chance to compete are everyone's security. Resisting far right histrionics and violence is everyone's security. Rejecting dirty money from dirty hands is everyone's security. Electing stable, competent, aware and self-aware leaders is everyone's security. Supporting the oppressed and helpless, and ensuring minimum standards of living while providing hope and multiple ways forward, is everyone's security.

Bar a percentage of psycopaths, nutters and malignant narcississts, most people are just like us, and should be treated accordingly. Yet, we keep electing dangerous people and taking their money, and delaying helping the helpless.

I don't think most people are wilfully bad, we are just in the habit of rewarding bad leaders who give us more today, right now, because the inner voice in our fragile egos demands we assume that we're superior humans who deserve more. But it's a psychiatric trick that's evolutionarily had its time. The world is too complex and intertwined, so instead of rewarding me this instant because I'm superior, we need to step back and act as good managers and investors, seeing the wider whole and longer duration as part of our responsibility. My benefit right now simply isn't success by any rational definition, which is why classical economics is so limited.

I feel for the average Israeli caught in a maelstrom not of their making. I wouldn't live there if you paid me, because it's a state living on funding and protection from people who also fund and stimulate the very terrorism behind this kind of violence through fossil fuel revenues and deals with the devil. When you combine that conflict of interest with far-right nutcase leadership, you will never ever be safe, even if it should be a basic right.

Just some balance to the coverage:

Why did Hamas and Islamic Jihad launch the attack?

The exact reasons for the attack are not clear, but there has been growing violence for months between Israeli soldiers and settlers and Palestinians in the West Bank. Armed settlers have attacked Palestinian villages; militants in the West Bank have attacked soldiers and settlers, and there have been repeated IDF raids on Palestinian cities.

During the past week, some Jews have prayed inside the compound of al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem’s Old City The area around the mosque is known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif and is the third holiest place for Islam after Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia. To Jews, it is known as Temple Mount, and is venerated as the site of the biblical Jewish temple. Jews are not permitted to pray inside al-Aqsa compound; to do so is highly provocative. Hamas has called its current offensive Operation al-Aqsa Deluge.

The longer backdrop is a 16-year blockade of Gaza by Israel and Egypt that has almost destroyed the strip’s internal economy and has caused hardship for the people living there.

Extreme religious nationalists who are part of Israel’s rightwing coalition government have repeatedly called for the annexation of Palestinian territory. There has also been speculation that the offensive could have been encouraged by Iran as a means of scuppering moves by Saudi Arabia to normalise relations with Israel.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... erritories

Think only Hamas is filled with religious fruitcakes? Think again. A report just this week, but widely reported elsewhere and indicative of the deranged religious lunatics who support Netanyahu:

Dozens of Israeli settlers have forced their way into the flashpoint Al-Aqsa Mosque complex in occupied East Jerusalem to mark the fifth day of Sukkot, according to the Islamic Waqf Department.

Since Sunday, thousands of settlers have been carrying out provocative tours of the mosque complex following calls by ultranationalist Jewish groups.

...

Meanwhile, Israeli police on Wednesday arrested five people suspected of spitting towards Christians or churches in the Old City of Jerusalem and formed a special investigative team to deal with growing complaints of hostile gestures against Christians.

“Unfortunately, we witness the continued disgraceful acts of hatred towards Christians in the Old City of Jerusalem, primarily through spitting by extremists,” said Jerusalem District Commander Doron Turgeman on Wednesday.

...

Members of the area’s small Christian community have said they have faced growing harassment and intimidation from Jewish ultranationalists, particularly since Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s hard-right government took office late last year.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/ ... -of-sukkot

And those events been widely reported across all media outlets over the past few years.

The Israeli far-right and Israel's vile criminal far-right thug leader, Nutteryahoo, bear the full half of this, with the deranged Hamas and its sponsors, who have played their predictable racist reflexes like a fiddle, bearing the rest.

Oh, and remember the World Cup in Qatar? Guess who one of Hamas' biggest state sponsors is? FIFA, ever lowlife scumbags, followed a World Cup in Russia with a World Cup in Qatar, showing there is no money they won't take.

The lack of moral judgement and sober, fair decision making sickens me. When you sleep with dogs, you get fleas. Just like Trump, Netanyahu is as predictable as a wind-up child's toy, as with every malignant narcissist. Israel's famed defence force missed this because that bastard has bogged down, divided and distracted the country in scandal after scandal.

This was his George Bush stunned mullet moment. His Trump covid denial moment. Far right nutcases talk a huge tough game, but in the end their division, corruption and histrionics, and their misdirection of resources and focus to hype up their cults, makes absolutely everything weaker all the way through the nation.

[pietillidie]

WPT, how are you faring? I feel for you, knowing you're sandwiched between Israel's vulnerability to terrorist forces and their sponsors, and Israel's lunatic far right whom many Israelis and Jews vigorously oppose.

I have always meant to ask, and maybe you've said, but do you have relos living in Israel?

[think positive]

so, i dont get this at all!
i couldnt see Palestine on the map so i googled it:
https://login.source-material.us/
huh isnt that Israel?
https://www.bing.com/maps?q=israel+map& ... 86&lvl=7.5


religion split:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Israel

or this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... _Palestine

and this:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=jerusalem ... &FORM=AWRE

clearly im too late to the party!

is this hard core muslims against hard car Jews? the map in the third link with the colours for religions looks like a powder keg ready to go off.

and is it Palestine or Israel?

since they look like the same thing, said palestine child is an israeli child?

when i asked hubby he seemed to think the Israelis (jews) shouldnt be there. so...where did they come from? also he goes off on a one sided rant, so give me the dumbed down fence sitter stance please.