Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[David]

[stui magpie]

I'd call that a pretty balanced summary. Well said.

Fun fact, in the old testament, the Philistines referred to that the Israelites battled, was the original name of the Palestinians used by the Greeks. The name then moved through Roman into Arabic and became Palestinian.

In the story of David and Goliath, Goliath was a Philistine and David became the Jewish King.

So shit has been going on there for thousands of years.

[pietillidie]

Yeah, that's right enough. It's amazing after that long see-sawing history, the population of the two groups is now pretty much the same.

And in another reflection of ancient history, the great surrounding empires are all still involved, with the new world thrown in for good measure.

No one's going away, so you'd think you might want to call it even and call it a day, but not to be.

You can bet OPEC are loving this, though.

I thought this captured the percentage of religious crazies pretty well:

In the December poll, 37% of Israeli Jews said they’d like to see a solution involving a single non-democratic state in which Palestinians didn’t have equal rights. Thirty percent of Palestinians said they wanted a single, Palestinian-dominated state. Smaller minorities on both sides supported a binational state with equal rights for everyone.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ing-to-war

If it only takes 20% of the population to be mad to wreck a country.... Imagine being a liberal Jew in Israel at the moment; I don't know how they can bear it.

[think positive]

Ah, that’s the trek Jews make to their homeland, often mentioned in movies. Thanks David that’s really interesting.

I don’t understand why Jews have been so persecuted, or why the British didn’t want to give them their own state, that’s awful.

So the west bank is run by people with brains, but the Israelis are being crafty, and Gaza is virtually a big criminal cess pit!

Gees religion is so divisive

[stui magpie]

Depending on what you read, the Brits did agree to the creation of a new Israel and Palestine, but the Arab's kicked up and refused as they didn't want the Jews there. From there it played out as David said in my understanding.

Apart from the timeline above, it's worth mentioning that the Jews were in Jerusalem 1000 years before Islam was created and 500+ years before Jesus so if any religion has a claim to the place, it's them.

At the time of Exodus, when the Jews escaped Egypt and spent their 40 years in the desert etc before setting in what is now Israel, the surrounding Arab tribes had different religions, worshipping multiple gods (similar to Egypt but different) and idols. Islam came much later when Mohammad proclaimed himself a prophet.

[Magpietothemax]

Let's not pretend that Israel doesn't have a whole lot of blood on their hands in this ongoing conflict.

The difference is when they kill Palestinian men, women and children that blood is generally hidden under a pile of rubble.

Amazing how different the reaction is when you don't get the easy option of not witnessing the dead.

Very good comment. When slaves rebel against the master who imposes the lash and chains, no person with any sense of justice or morality blames the slave for the ensuing violence.
Same applies here.
Tragically, innocent people in Israel died because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. But the responsibility for this lies with the Israeli government, armed to the teeth by the US and the EU, carrying out decades of violent repression against the Palestinian people, confining them to an open air prison, regularly bombarding them, and on several occasions carrying out bloody ground invasions where the ratio of deaths, Palestinian to Israeli, were 100 to 1. In 2019, during a peaceful protest of Palestinian people demanding the right to return to their homelands, from which they were expelled in 1948 and 1967, the Israeli military gunned down and killed over 200 people, injuring and maiming thousands more. Conditions in the Gaza Strip, where 2,000,000 people are confined to a strip of land of 365 km squared, under conditions of economic blockade by the Israeli state, are hell on earth.
Now, the US, EU, Australian, British governments are all declaring that Israel's impending response, which will involve the collective punishment of 2 million people through an economic seige, as well as a likely ground invasion killing thousands more, is "justified". I am sure that many people world wide understand who the real terrorists are, and it isn't Hamas.

[think positive]

Why don’t they leave the Gaza Strip?

Why would yo7 want to live under constant threat of terrorism

[think positive]

And I’d like to once again take the opportunity to say Thankyou for your patience with me and my ignorance with a world stage subject. My priorities and free time quantity have greatly changed so I’m reading more world news. Plus most of my acting heroes are retired so I’m watching real life stuff instead of Fast and furious type movies! . I really do appreciate everyone explaining, and no one being a dick! Cheers xx

[stui magpie]

Why don’t they leave the Gaza Strip?

Why would yo7 want to live under constant threat of terrorism

Where would they go? neither Egypt or israel would take them, they're stuck there being used as pawns by terrorists.

[Magpietothemax]

Why don’t they leave the Gaza Strip?

Why would yo7 want to live under constant threat of terrorism

Where would they go? neither Egypt or israel would take them, they're stuck there being used as pawns by terrorists.

Who do you believe are the terrorists?

[Magpietothemax]

Why don’t they leave the Gaza Strip?

Why would yo7 want to live under constant threat of terrorism

Good question TP.
A number of reasons come to mind.
As I referenced, there was a demonstration in 2019 where thousands of Palestinian people marched to the wall separating Gaza from Israel, demanding the right to return to their homelands, and their family properties, from which they were brutally dispossessed, in 1948 and 1967. By leaving, they would be abandoning their historical connections, which for some would be deeply painful.
Even more significant is the fact that the economic choke hold that the Israeli government has used to strangle Gaza for many years has created devastating poverty in Gaza. Most would not have the material means to leave.
Fnally, which country would be willing to accept them as refugees? All the capitalist governments: the EU, the US, Australia, support Israel, and portray Israel as the "victim". So, naturally, to maintain this facade, they will not accept any Palestinian people as genuine asylum seekers. The situaation of the Palestinian people, trapped in Gaza, brings to mind the situation of Jewish refugees: the boat St Louis which sailed out from Germany with 900 Jewish people aboard, seeking asylum in the US from the murderous persecution of the Nazi regime. They were rejected by the US government, and sent back to Europe.

[pietillidie]

^Hamas and their sponsors are scum of the earth too, though.

Where have common ground is that deals with the devil infuriate me so much, whether be nutcase settlers or OPEC. It puts lie to everything being said and done.

I mean, normalising relations with Saudi Arabia? I bet the parents of dead Yemeni children will be delighted.

Just this week:

'Kill us or send us home': Amazon workers in Saudi Arabia say they were exploited by labor supply and recruiting firms

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/busine ... rcna118614

Saudi Arabia is a notoriously racist slave country, known to pretty much have the highest rates of enslavement on the planet. As if Amazon didn't know. It's the equivalent of doing business with a sex trafficking cartel and being taken aback when you discover poor working conditions.

Saudi Arabia should be on a sanctions list with Russia so firms like Amazon can't exploit through them. You can't sanction one and fawn over the other. That's the part Chomsky gets right.

Every single Israeli breach of international and humanitarian law should rightly be penalised to bring what is now a rogue state into line. Not only does Israel's far right make Israel less secure, the treatment of average (Mo?) Palestinians is plainly a crime against humanity.

At the same time, so is the professional terrorism directed against Israel funded by Russia, Iran, Qatar et al., paid for with OPEC and fossil fuels revenues.

Everyone's got a bloody excuse, apparently, except no one's got an excuse.

[Magpietothemax]

^Saudi Arabia is a very strong ally of the US, that is wy it is not on any sanctions list.

[pietillidie]

So damned depressing

[David]